Bushcraft/survival fitness and conditioning

[1234]

personally isn't the same as giving someone advise
i wouldn't tell anyone to do what i do, simply because everyone is different, and in a way my life is in my own hands, if i **** up i'm only to blame

and i prefer to not bring humor into serious discussions
it stays at the door

 

[pango]

Lets not turn this into another Bear Grylls slating competition eh? After all, he was special forces and would do alot better than some fat bottomed kit junkie like Ray.

Dave, I thought, short of actually saying that Ray Mears is a sort of roundish shape, that my post was fairly well balanced and unbiased... well, maybe I did pick on Bare a wee bit.

Joking aside though, I was making fair and valuable proven points with regard to physiological condition/heat loss and likelihood of survival in considerably different environments.
When someone mentioned BG and RM in one post I just couldn't help myself!

Cheers.

 

[1234]

last winter when it was snowing quite heavy i was jogging every other day in a wind jacket, t shirt, shorts, hat and gloves and i was perfectly fine, i had one cold last year, what im trying to say is its down to the individual

looks like you missed the point pango, which lisa has nicely just covered

 

[pango]

and i prefer to not bring humor into serious discussions
it stays at the door

In some of the scenarios I've referred to above, 1234, regardless of kit, skill, adaptability and an overbearing sense of self-preservation, humour can be the single most important thing in your repertoire.

As a mate of mine said after accidentally walking onto a frozen river in the Monadh Ruadh (Cairngorms to most), crashing through the ice and being totally immersed, "Thank f#ck for gaiters!"

 

[1234]

As a mate of mine said after accidentally walking onto a frozen river in the Monadh Ruadh (Cairngorms to most), crashing through the ice and being totally immersed, "Thank f#ck for gaiters!"

thats not in a serious discussion

i do own a sense of humor though, honest

 

[jungle_re]

without being able to get thoroughly warm

i agree with alot of what you said but think of this the other way around; sort of in a capacity to reach way. Getting thoroughly warm has never been as much as a concern as avoiding getting a deep chill. I have found it always relativly easy to gain warmth after having been cold but once you have become chilled to the bone it becomes very difficult to get any heat into the body and this is where you rapidly go down.
At this stage i think fitness and conditioning have already been overcome
Avoiding getting that cold rather than becoming intermitantly thoroughly warm.


I wonder apart form any moisture issue if frequent changes in core temp has much of a differnt effect on the body than say becoming chilled and then warming up once (with respect to a day)?

 

[lisa]

agreed Will, admitedly I was writing rather hurridly between bouts of other work, but yes, I would definately agree. Mostly, when outdoors I am not really thoroughly warm by modern standards and that is a state which one adjusts to. And to your second point, i have not really followed this thread so have probably wandered off topic...appologies. It just struck me that there is a big gap between running for fitness and the considerations of outdoor extended living.

 

[jungle_re]

Nope all fairly relevant Lisa id say. Your obviously a fit girl (gathered from the mention of fell running in another thread) is there anything that you do regulary or infreqently that you physically struggle with or find demanding?

 

[jungle_re]

Considerations for extended outdoor living is in my opinon something which is very much overlooked and would make a great topic/conversation point. Long term survival (i'd say over 3 months) raises the ante considerably on the body and not something that is written about that much

 

[lisa]

Oh many things . Someone mentioned earlier in this thread about conditioning in reference to hands and using knives or handrill I think...anyway they were good comments. I'm sure you know how debilitating blisters and other small strains etc can become when they worsen over extended periods of use. If I suddenly have to do a lot of felling and chopping after a period of doing none, my hands, joints and all the small muscles and tendons can become quite sore. Then one has to be careful not to inflame tendons etc...for example.

But I do feel that conditioning as opposed to simply fitness is key here, even comparing the fitness I have from running/hiking over rough terrain to friends who have run far greater distances than me, but on roads. Put simply, they quickly struggle off road...but then my joints struggle on roads!?

 

[John Fenna]

As someone who has been fit (long time ago...) and now struggles with joint and tendon troubles (age BITES!) I would like to add the observation that super fit, well conditioned folk will still fail if their mental attitude or technique is poor, while the unfit softies have been known to come through hell if their heads were in the right place....
I am pinning my hopes on keeping a PMA when the smelly stuff hits the air conditioning......

 

[lisa]

Will, I think that's because not many people have done it!? ...I agree it would be interesting tho

 

[lisa]

Actually I'll catch myself there...I guess many people have lived extensively outdoors, but from a survival starting piont? I don't know, i think it needs more clarification

 

[pango]

Jungle_re; I think you'd agree that constant awareness of the effects various tasks are having on you; your physical condition; knowing when to take off or add a layer, and when you're going to have to seek shelter before it's a matter of urgency, has to be paramount in cold environments. I've been fortunate enough never to have reached the deeper stages of hypothermia you refer to, but do believe that many variables make up your quota of "luck".

Lisa, what you describe as muscle, tendon and joint pains due to irregularly practiced tasks are, as you know, perfectly normal. I think I can put my hand on my heart and say that I've never seriously trained or practiced for any of my various pastimes, loosely termed "mountaineering", also canoeing and scuba diving, but rather formed a habit of depending on my physical fitness and the routine of turning various shades of purple on the first day out, in the knowledge that I'd be fit as a butcher's dog tomorrow.... a fleeting luxury, as John Fenna will no doubt testify. Sometimes fun hurts!

I've been in a few sticky situations, none of which lasted for more than a few days before fortunately coming to the right decision between the best route and the road to nowhere. Downward spirals, it seems to me, are a combination of events, circumstances and bad decisions. Preparation, a cool head, confidence in ones abilities and a sense of humour are essential in forming the Positive Mental Attitude, John chucked into the equation. Without these elements, PMA can only ever be an unknown quantity to most who have never been in a long term situation, possibly alone and living on your wits to pull you through. Physical fitness is of course an important part of this but, short of a debilitating illness, I'd prefer to rely on my knowledge, common sense and skills.
As Eric Idle would say, "Always look on the bright side of life."

ps; And let's not forget Stuart's post, that "Survival is all about a good cup of tea."

My apologies if I appear to be flippant at times, but as we say up here, sometimes if ye don't laugh ye'll greet!

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

Mike Stroud and Ran Fiennes have been recent advocates of pushing your body, to see what's possible.

The Antartic in the 90s, 7 Marathons in 7 Days on 7 Continents, etc etc. Mike Stroud believes we are genetically designed to push ourselves to extremes but we don't in our sedentery lifestyle.

 

[Andy BB]

Going back a bit to hypothermia. I find it difficult to believe from a scientific standpoint that a relatively slim person will survive it in extremis better than one with - say - 20lbs of additional fat (spread over the body, not all around the gut!). similarly, just because one doesn't necessarily feel cold in sub-zero temps in short and tee-shirt doesn't mean the body isn't preparing to constrict the veins to retain heat at the core - which leads to the onset of frost-bite in the extremities. Yes - like many other things, the body can be trained to reduce sensitivity to the cold, but the simple fact of heat-loss pretty much ignores that from a physiological standpoint. You are losing heat, whether you feel it or not, and sooner or later your body starts defending the important bits at the expense of the rest. Exercise will warm up the body for a while and keep the blood flowing, but that burns reserves pretty quickly. You stave off frost-bite for a while, at the expense over the longer term of dying quicker!

I saw a programme recently where experienced members of a mountain rescue team in Canada I think, got trapped in a small crevice for 10 days - weather was too bad for a rescue party to climb to them, or helicopters to fly. They made the conscious decision to accept frost-bite rather than exercising and dying. They lived, but lost feet and one lost a leg.

 

[Laurentius]

I really don't understand the often heard talk of "I can walk forever but not run" as if anybody who could run couldn't walk forever too, only probably faster and with less strain.

It's simple really different sets of muscles and different strains on the body. Running will exhaust you before walking especially if you are carrying a load.

 

[big_swede]

It's simple really different sets of muscles and different strains on the body. Running will exhaust you before walking especially if you are carrying a load.

Read again, read right.

 

[wentworth]

Not really a different set of muscles. Hip flexor lifts the leg, tibialis anterior lifts the foot. Glute contracts along with quads and calves to push off. Jogging and walking, all with the legs.

 

[DaveBromley]

This is a really interesting thread and I can see it from both sides I myself don't FEEL the cold that much or at least not as much as friends and family, however I do acknowledge that I am still losing heat at the same rate as them within reason.

What I was wondering is if anyone has a setworkout that they feel helps them stay/get fit for bushcraft?

I used to be quite physically fit but due to long working hours in an office and general lack of motivation coupled with quitting smoking my weight has skyrocketed.

I want to get back into shape and have changed careers recently to something a little more active I was wondering if anyone could help with suggestions of exercises I can do and how to return to fitness

P.s. My fitness level ATM is SHOCKING so I would need to start from scratch

Thanks for any advice

Dave