Bushcraft or re-enactment

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Went to Tewkesbury at the weekend for the medieval fair... I tell you what, I was so jealous of these guys!! They all get together to celebrate their hobby... there was axe's, carving, fletching arrows, cooking over open fires... stalls selling leather, furs, gransfors axe's, knives,
sinew, antler, etc etc... Blooming great stuff. Just as appealing to a Bushcrafter as any re-enactor anyday!!!
We can learn a lot from these guys..
If you ask me, there isn't much difference in it. Its about getting out there and coming home smelling like woodsmoke..
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
Snip> We can learn a lot from these guys..
If you ask me, there isn't much difference in it. Its about getting out there and coming home smelling like woodsmoke..

Talk about hitting the nail on the head....
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johnboy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 2, 2003
2,258
5
Hamilton NZ
www.facebook.com
I was genuinely wondering what the others in NZ and Norway thought and why the UK was a joke, I also wanted to know what they did that was so different.

Can you let me know what folk in those countries do do? and what do they think?

Hi,

I can Speak for NZ with some authority as I've been here for 5 years now The last time I was in Norway was with 3 Cdo Brigade so that's a bit different.

Ok NZ..

1. Swanndri's are not the norm out tramping etc at least not in my experience here in the NI. You do see them from time to time out and about mainly I see then being worn by farmers on quad bikes and folk contracting on roadworks etc. By far the norm is a cheapish fleece from either Kathmandu or a fleece pack of clothing from Hunting and Fishing ( $99.00 for 5 bits!!) occasionally a Swazi fleece. I'd say Kiwi's percieve Nylon fleece to be a bit better than a wooly Swanndri and there certianly a lot cheaper and both are made in China.

2. You very rarely see anyone wearing a Swazi Thar Jacket unless they are a very serious hunter or Minted. They are just too expensive for most Kiwi's again A cheaper Goretex jacket from Kathmandu and a lot of Trampers wear a PU nylon non breatheable jacket from Oringi.

3. Ventile is pretty much unheard of. There was one guy making Ventile 'waterproof' jackets down in Christchurch but he died IIRC and the business folded and the stuff was so expensive it was laughable.

Bushcraft here is just a generic term that covers the skill set needed to operate effectively in the NZ bush and on the open tops below the snowline. It is generally does not incorporate wood craft and carving and manufacturing techniques. Nor Primative living skills, Nor generally foraging skills. Most Kiwi Trampers will know how to constuct an emergency shelter in the bush. A lot will happily use a fly ( tarp / poncho) for year round camping augmenting it with a back country hut. I rarely see Hammocks in use. Like the real Kiwi we're ground dwellers for the most part. Lighting a fire is a survival skill most Kiwi Trampers / hunters will know both in the dry and wet. They're most likely to use a bic lighter rather than a firesteel for it. However it's less common to see fires being lit as it's percieved to be bad for the environment to light a fire every time you want to have a brew or a kerfuddle etc.

Hunters may have a sheath knife it's unlikely in my experience to be a really expensive hand made blade Gerber is considered to be a top brand here ,Trampers generally carry a pocket knife or SAK. Axes are not too common Granfors is not imported.

Getting anywhere involves a good walk ( tramp) fitness is important and the terrain is very different from the UK and UK Woodland or Moorland. If you really want to get into the Ulu then you'll fly in either fix winged or Helo especially for a hunt.

With a very low population density you can get away from it really quickly. I've Done a heap of: Climbing, Tramping, Hunting and Mountaineering here and in the UK. It's nothing like the UK at all. Not that the UK is bad far from it. But don't imagine that NZ is somehow the same but a bit more lumpy.

Outdoor kit here is generally very very expensive so people tend to make do. I'd observe that Kiwi's are less 'obsessed' with kit than folk are in the UK. Hunters tend to 'go on' a bit about firearms but that's generally the guys who are not doing that much the blokes who are doing a lot of shooting tend to have a firearm that looks pretty nasty but gets the job done.

So generally there are not a lot of us wandering around the Bush with a Swanndri Ranger and Swazi Tahr jacket and a Merino Beanie on with a Svord knife swinging on our hips..

Sorry to dissapont you. I found a lot of the 'Bushcraft kit' or uniform I brought out with me from the UK such as my Ventile jacket, Wilkinson Sword RM Knife and Granfors SFA have been languishing in the shed.

I've had particularly good service here in NZ from the following bits of kit.

1. Berghaus Lightning Goretex jacket, Simple and waterproof.
2. Meindl Desert Fox Boots very quick to dry.
3. Berghaus Vulcan 'Bergen' simply the best.
4. La Sportiva Makalu Boots, Superb in the Alpine environment.
5. Swazi Micro fleece T shirt, top kit worn all year.
6. Hell Hansen 'Hairy Bear' fleece Jacket,Ugly but warm
7. Macpac Shorts.
8. Icebreaker merino top,made in china not NZ but still nice and toasty.

As to what do I think about Bushcraft in the UK and the forum.

I think Bush craft in the UK is a lot different than here in NZ for all of the reasons stated above. But mainly because we don't have TV as a major influencer here in NZ. We get BG on Discovery and Prime. 'Outdoors with Geoff' a local Hunting and fishing programme. RM doesn't appear on TV much at all I think his Walkabout series was on last year. My perception is TV personalities still have a reasonable level of influence on the UK Bushcraft 'scene' and to a degree set a bit of a trend.

I personally struggle to see / understand the need to equip yourself with the latest and greatest bit of kit to practicion bushcraft in the relatively benign environment of UK woodland when legions of Kiwis are roaming around less than benign NZ bush in pretty basic kit. However having made that statement. I also fully understand that part of any hobby or pursuit is getting the kit and equipment together and enjoying using it. So each to his own.

I've dipped in and out of this forum since 2003 and I do not have a massive post tally however on reflection I'd say it 'feels' less friendly than it used to.

There you go a Kiwi (or Johnny foreigner's) perspective.

Cheers

John
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
17
Scotland
Hi,

I can Speak for NZ with some authority as I've been here for 5 years now The last time I was in Norway was with 3 Cdo Brigade so that's a bit different.

Ok NZ..

....

There you go a Kiwi (or Johnny foreigner's) perspective.

Cheers

John

Hi John,

Cheers mate, this is what I was after, to see that other perspective alluded to. Unfortunately I'm just heading off out to work, but will re-read and digest properly on my return.

Thanks for the post.

Colin.
 

durulz

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 9, 2008
1,755
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The difference in attitudes highlighted by Johnboy I think are products of the environments. As he correctly states, places like NZ are nothing like the UK. As such, our (UK) bushcrafting is one of luxury. In places like NZ it is one of everyday living. To that extent I can see why bushcrafting in the UK can be see as re-enactment, and that it is about odd bits of kit. After all, the whole UK bushcraft 'scene' is one of luxury and past-time and...well, a hobby. And hobbies have to keep reinventing themselves (via new merchandise) to stay fresh. Yes, it is re-enactment to a degree because when we are out we try to practice skills and crafts that we don't really need; there's an element of fantasy and imagination and 'creating' an adventure.
And bloody good job too!
I don't mind any of that. Jimbo75's post about the re-enactment fair sums it up perfectly - so what if it is all a bit of escapism (which I'm quite happy to admit is the case in the UK). Mind you, I used to be a re-enactor (and LARPer) myself, so I'm rather given to such things. Damn it all, I say. Label me if you want. Dismiss if you want. I'm enjoying myself.

Here's another thing though, that this thread has got me thinking about. 'Bushcraft' is supposed to be about the natural world and immersing oneself in the beauty and tranquility of the world around us. We quite often get philosophical threads in the Other Chat section. This all points to a past-time that is about reflection, peace, philosophy, thought etc. It's also a very fringe activity. With all this in mind, there do seem to be some very divisive people out there, an attitude that seems at odds with it all. I'm getting a bit fed up with that, and those kinds of people. They seem to be spoiling it (I rather hope not on purpose). It's not about towing the line (which I'm sure is the shoddy defense they will spout out), it's about accepting people do things their way, and you do your's your way. Tolerance. If you don't like the people you go 'bushcrafting' or 'camping' with or the people who show off all their kit at a meeting then, well, grow up and find people who you DO like being around!
Was that really such a difficult solution to come up with?
 

Tadpole

Full Member
Nov 12, 2005
2,842
21
59
Bristol
. With all this in mind, there do seem to be some very divisive people out there, an attitude that seems at odds with it all. I'm getting a bit fed up with that, and those kinds of people. They seem to be spoiling it (I rather hope not on purpose). It's not about towing the line (which I'm sure is the shoddy defense they will spout out), it's about accepting people do things their way, and you do your's your way. Tolerance. If you don't like the people you go 'bushcrafting' or 'camping' with or the people who show off all their kit at a meeting then, well, grow up and find people who you DO like being around!
Was that really such a difficult solution to come up with?
Well said, :You_Rock_ as in life so on the Forum.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,109
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Pembrokeshire
Well said that Durulz!
It is interesting that NZ "bushcraft" is about more about "Tramping" than traditional skills and wilderness living - no wonder that a Kiwi finds British Bushcrafters a bit different (laughable). It looks like ANOTHER case of "two nations separated by a common language" ie same name - diferent game!
An example of this would be going into an American office supplies store and asking to by a "rubber"....see the reaction you would get!
 

johnboy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 2, 2003
2,258
5
Hamilton NZ
www.facebook.com
It is interesting that NZ "bushcraft" is about more about "Tramping" than traditional skills and wilderness living - no wonder that a Kiwi finds British Bushcrafters a bit different (laughable).

Hi John F,

Without turning this thread into a what goes on in NZ fest. I'd say that bushcraft here is far more than Tramping. Hunting and the skill set that goes with that feature heavily also so you've got tracking skills and marksmanship, skinning, field butchery, and meat preservation skills amongst others and at risk of disagreeing with you I'd also say that NZ bushcraft is very much about Wilderness living as we have a lot of wilderness so off track navigation in bush, wilderness river crossing skills, outdoor first aid even mountain radio usage all feature in a well rounded NZ 'Trampers' skill set... I'd would say we're light on the 'traditional skills' but I've got tramping friends that are exceptionally adept at plant identification and even I can tell my parataniwha from my macro piper excelsum and my mamaku from my pikopiko.

So what we've got is a set of skills that suit our particular environment and climate and allow us to acess the backcountry / wilderness confidently and safely.


Cheers

John
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
Durulz and Johnboy ...:approve:

I sometimes think that when folks get tied up in threads like this, with the over emphasis on kit and definitions of what they are and aren't, that they forget that it's a tiny part of the actual set of activities in which we participate.

A broad church, from those who have no access to the outdoors to those who step out the backdoor and into the natural world;
From those who regularly get out every day / weekend / month, to those who plan and prepare for a once or twice a year break.
Those who live in circumstances where the opportunity or the need to buy expensive kit is nil to those who are just itching to see what's new / better / improved.
From those with a wide range of traditional skills to those who's knowledge of animals or plants can seem encyclopedic and to those slowly learning and growing in confidence in their abillities :)

This forum isn't the bushcraft, the activities we participate in, the lifestyles we lead, the interactions we have with the natural world and the things we create from the resources we acquire, are.
This is just where we come to sit with a cuppa and blether for a while with like minded folks :cool:

Until I joined the forum though, I didn't know that the things my family and friends did came under the bushcraft heading. (Don't watch much tv, as in virtually none ) It was a delight to find an wide ranging community that was as involved in the same kinds of traditional handcrafts, ethnobotany, and outdoor skills as we were.
Widened my social network a whole other dimension :D and life was busy enough before :rolleyes:

New Zealand sounds beautiful Johnboy :) HWMBLT would be in seventh heaven; hills to walk all the time. I do take your point though, the skillsets are relevant to the environment we live in.
I don't like hillwalking much, I do enjoy my wandering though :D and I get such a sense of satisfaction/ job well done, from making things. Especially made from scratch :)

Re-enacting ? No, I don't think so.
I get dressed up sometimes to work at historical sites, but that's it. Bushcrafting I just wear my clothes :D

cheers,
M
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
Nice replies John, you have explained things well (John is not the kiwi I talked to by the way but he reflects what the other chap said). "Tramping" is more in line with my idea of bushcraft by the sound of it, a much better term IMHO for summing up what most of us do.

durulz, you are right in that we all need to find camping buddies that we get on with and share common themes and practises with, I have and I know others here have; such splinter grouping is common within most hobbies.

Some interesting replies, keep them coming.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,109
2,847
66
Pembrokeshire
Hi John F,

Without turning this thread into a what goes on in NZ fest. I'd say that bushcraft here is far more than Tramping. Hunting and the skill set that goes with that feature heavily also so you've got tracking skills and marksmanship, skinning, field butchery, and meat preservation skills amongst others and at risk of disagreeing with you I'd also say that NZ bushcraft is very much about Wilderness living as we have a lot of wilderness so off track navigation in bush, wilderness river crossing skills, outdoor first aid even mountain radio usage all feature in a well rounded NZ 'Trampers' skill set... I'd would say we're light on the 'traditional skills' but I've got tramping friends that are exceptionally adept at plant identification and even I can tell my parataniwha from my macro piper excelsum and my mamaku from my pikopiko.

So what we've got is a set of skills that suit our particular environment and climate and allow us to acess the backcountry / wilderness confidently and safely.


Cheers

John

Hey - I was not dissing the NZ way of life and Bushcraft - merely saying it is different:)
Cooch always seems to know his wildlife and wild foods even if Wal is only interested in the shooting of deer, boar and possums (is Footrot Flats still published?) Long live the Scarlet Manuka!:D
 

Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
7,983
7,760
Mid Wales
www.mont-hmg.co.uk
Well said that Durulz!
It is interesting that NZ "bushcraft" is about more about "Tramping" than traditional skills and wilderness living - no wonder that a Kiwi finds British Bushcrafters a bit different (laughable). It looks like ANOTHER case of "two nations separated by a common language" ie same name - diferent game!
An example of this would be going into an American office supplies store and asking to by a "rubber"....see the reaction you would get!

John,

I think you're a bit to eager to assume that bushcraft in the UK is only what you do :)

I learnt the majority of my bushcraft reading old book as a kid and applied it mostly while tramping on my own in North Africa and later in what is left of UK wilderness (the N Y Moors, Snowdonia and the like). I fish, hunt, forage and rarely stay more than two days in a place. I too find the sitting around making things a bit strange to be labelled bushcraft but then that is how the older civilisations were structured anyway - some 'homesteaded' others travelled and hunted they all applied bushcraft knowledge/tools to survive. And, whilst on the subject, I have to say that the level of 'making' skills I have seen from members on this forum is fantastic - better than I knew was out there to be honest.

I am definitely not re-enacting when I use my skills to make my treks more comfortable; I'm using applicable skills for the environement I'm in. Technology fails - simple skills and tools are as applicable now (in what I do) as they were years ago.

I just don't see 'bushcraft' itself as a way of life - I believe it's just a collection of tools that can be applied wherever you are whatever your lifestyle.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,109
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John,

I think you're a bit to eager to assume that bushcraft in the UK is only what you do :) .

Not at all my friend!:)
I do my thing, others do theirs and we all call it Bushcraft!
These days the shooting I do is somewhat limitted, but many of my bushcraft buddies see this as a primary part of their bushcraft. My plant and wildfood skills are not the greatest, but I know some...I enjoy making knives, leatherwork, clothing, flint and steel kits and a bit of green woodwork, while others see these bits of bushctraft as marginal....I have just come back from a 110 mile tramp in the north of England and used some of my bushy skills to make it more enjoyable, while others see walking more than a few meters away from their cars as an obsracle to enjoying the outdoors....
As I said earlier, I see bushcraft as a broad church embracing many different facets but generally including some crafts or skills other than swilling beer on a campsite!:rolleyes:
I enjoy MY version of Bushcraft and hope everyone enjoys THEIR version - whatever it my include - if someone gets their fun from being outdoors, using skills that apply to their environment then who am I to laugh at them?
If someone disparages what I do/wear/enjoy then that is their problem, not mine..I need no-ones aproval (except perhaps the landowners!)
I see the aplication of traditional skills as fundimental to MY version of bushcraft and the enjoyment I get from the wilder places and do not see it as RE enactment but an enactment of my interests in the wilder places left for us to find.
I once carved and burned out a spoon on the banks of the Orange River in Namibia, a traditional skill being used to replace gear one of the exped members had lost on a canoe trip, a pleasurable use of my bushcraft for a double pleasure - one of actualy carving and burning out the spoon and also of improving the lot of a careless co traveler. The spoon carving also lead to other exped members trying their carving skills, the best of which was the production of a playable flute made by one member for another to play, which gave EVERYONE on the trip great pleasure and made the exped an even greater success.
I would not want to disparage anyones version of bushcraft, nor would I expect anyone to disparage mine!
I have also used my skills to improvise kit for a trek in the Atlas Mountains when Air Morrocco lost my rucksack between Casablanca and Marakesh - without the skills I have learned over the years a great trek would have been abandoned to the great disapointment of several people...
A set of skills, a lifestyle, a hobby - whatever you apreciate as Bushcraft - as long as you enjoy it GREAT - lots of games with one name, but lets not get into "my bushcraft is purer than your bushcraft" scene:) - ain't no-one going to win that one:D
 

Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
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John, I realize from past threads that you have personnaly done a lot - but your comment made it sound as though we were all armchair bushcrafters (which I know you're not) - If you could see me you'd know I was winking not wagging a finger (difficult this electronic communications lark).

I agree with everything else you've said :)

Cheers,

Broch
 
H

He' s left the building

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Certain aspects of bushcraft involve keeping traditional skills alive, which is a form of re-enactment is it not?
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
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:rolleyes: Aint that the trouble with the written word!?:rolleyes:
It is so hard to get "tone and colour" into the readers eyes rather than the listeners ears!

Not all are armchair bushrafters - but by definition even they fall under the bushcrafter umberella!:D
Sitting under a cyber tree whittling a wooden spork and wishing they could get "out there" is not my style but it is all some can manage.
I have introduced people with quite severe physical disabilities to some of the outdoor activities I enjoy - they may never get to stomp up a mountain or run grade 3 rapids...but they get a buzz from what they can do!
Good enough for me to call them "outdoor enthusiasts"!:cool:
Equally anyone who does what they can to enjoy the skills of the general outdoor activities we call "bushcrafting" is welcome to call themselves a bushcrafter in my book!
A wide church.......
I rather think I have said my piece now so I will sign off from this thread...may your bushcrafting go with you!:D :240: :beerchug:
 

Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
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Certain aspects of bushcraft involve keeping traditional skills alive, which is a form of re-enactment is it not?

That's my point really - if you're using the skills to do things now why's it re-enactment. If I make a spoon to eat my porridge it's just as valid now as it was then.

I would concede that when I make a bow and practice archery I may be re-enacting because I'm not allowed to hunt with it in this country. However, I would argue that I practice in case I do need to use it some time in the future.

We don't say that all people who row or paddle a simple boat are re-enacting just because they don't use the latest petrol driven technology!

Broch
 

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