A Bold Statement

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Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
50
**********************
On the 27th of December 2009, at the Liverpool Philharmonic Hall, during a public lecture entitled 'Survivors', Raymond Mears made a bold statement.

"I've been teaching bushcraft in Britain now for 26 years, when I started teaching it there was no bushcraft "

Video clip here:



Now I'm sure that Mr Mears didn’t intend that statement to come across the way it does and I imagine that he would be the first to credit his peers and those in his field who went before him.

It never ceases to surprise me however, how many people I have met within the movement that has grown up around the survival and wilderness living skills in the UK, who vehemently make statements to this effect with regards to Mr Mears. seemingly oblivious to the many people who have, and who continue to advanced this field.

Peers like Larry Dean Olson, Richard & Linda Jamison, the Lars Falt, Mors Kochanski, Turkka aaltonen and the ever controversial Tom Brown (who tutored the young Mears briefly) the list goes on and on. All of whom published their works on the subject long before Raymond and many of whom were undoubtedly a great influence on him.

Then of course there are the past masters, Bernard Mason, Kemphart, Richard graves and H. A. Lindsay etc etc; the latter two even using the word 'Bushcraft' to describe their subject as early as the 1940's.

There were even schools in the UK dedicated to teaching the skills we now refer to as Bushcraft a least as early as 1909, such as the grandly named 'Imperial School of Colonial Instruction'

So why is it that so many people seem to have such a narrow field of study on this subject in the UK, why aren’t the aforementioned names better known here amongst those who profess to have a love of the subject?
 
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JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
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Stourton,UK
I think he meant bushcraft schools in the UK. It was called survival then and he was the only one really calling bushcraft to any great extent at the time.
 
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JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
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Stourton,UK
I really must stop browsing on my phone. I missed much of the first post which addressed my reply. Sorry Stuart.
 

wattsy

Native
Dec 10, 2009
1,111
3
Lincoln
i don't think he's saying the popularity of bushcraft is all down to him but you have to face facts that apart from a few people before ray popped up doing his tv programs hardly anyone had heard of bushcraft. a lot of people on here enjoy having a pop at him but i'd never have got into bushcraft without watching his programs
 
Stuart...without seeing the statement in context it is hard not to be so judgemental on the guy. At face value I would take it as evident of an arrogance I'd rather not see in anyone. We all have our darker sides but the key is to recognise it within us and change it. Most don't recognise it from within and blunder on regardless. But on the other hand he could have said something else after such as "as a recreation we know of today" giving it an entirely new meaning; but digressing asside, why aren't those names you mentioned more widely known or recognised by those you think should? If you are implying Mr Mears, only he can answer that but it could be interpreted as just in the interests of self promotion/lack of knowledge etc or ignored. If you mean within the wider community of bushcraft afficionado's, then maybe it's just down to not having access to the resources, skills or even time to research as you obviously do. Who knows eh but we'll soon find out huh?
 

slammer187

Nomad
Jul 11, 2009
411
0
Ireland
Well to Ray Bushcraft is basically using the skills and plant that are ancestors used and studying them to use to live comfortably in the wilderness, For example you can see this clearly if you were to compare Lofty Wiseman's books to Ray's...I'm not having a dig at anyone but when you look at it from this point of view you can see what he is saying!
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
I was at that lecture and it certainly didn't come across as arrogant to me at the time, I can't remember what he said next though.

I bought my copy of Graves in the late seventies so Ray is a bit of a Johnny come lately in my book, I still think he did much to change public perception at the timeand in many ways he changed the emphasis from "survivalism" towards what we now recognise as "Bushcraft".
 

jungle_re

Settler
Oct 6, 2008
600
0
Cotswolds
No will know what Ray meant by his comment except Ray; but which everway you look at it it was ill thought out.

As for other bushcraft practitioners and there popularity or exposure (lack of it) i think stems back to the age old forum favourite of what is bushcraft. Well to me bushcraft is just an umbrella term which covers a wide and deep line of subjects in there own right. A geneous tag if you like. Due that many peoples bushcraft doesnt directly follow a intense intrest in lots of the area which the previous practitioners follow. A casual glance through this forum for example will show that much of the current disscussion revolves along small holding/sustainable living and cottage crafts. Rather than research every option to acheive a given task and the different people and historys of why, where and when one or a couple of skills are mastered by most. This can be acheived with a couple of good books and may cause people to then stop, with the mears book being the most easily obtained.


There will always be those pinacle pushing new boundaried experimenting researching and learning all they can but such devotion come rarely. It a shame that more of the less well known and often far better books and practioners arnt more widely reconised but that just the way. More people now id expect have read an Andy McNab novel than a Dostoevsky one but it doest make his writting better
 

durulz

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 9, 2008
1,755
1
Elsewhere
Who cares?
There are far more important things going on in the world than who 'created' bushcraft.
It's not something I am going to get indignant about.
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
12,776
1,510
51
Wiltshire
Does he hae a good understanding of the history of the subject.

I had neer heard of him until I came here
 

Trev

Nomad
Mar 4, 2010
313
1
Northwich Cheshire
Heyho ,
I'm confident that it's either out of context or something equally forgivable .
Not everyone is well read , I am and I still had to look up most of the names on your list of luminaries . And I do think you missed a couple . Sir William Smith ( Founder of the Boys Brigade ) and Baden-Powell . Before these no-one ( outside of the military ) went "camping" and without camping I doubt there would be much of a UK bushcraft/survival movement .
Cheers , Trev .
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
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Stuart...without seeing the statement in context it is hard not to be so judgemental on the guy.

Sorry, I should have provided a link to the full lecture for context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohZN2w_556o
the statement comes 4min 25seconds in.

I'd like to make it clear again, I'm not knocking Mr Mears here, as I said I'm sure that Mr Mears didn’t intend that statement to come across the way it does and I imagine that he would be the first to credit his peers and those in his field who went before him.

The statement was just a nice start to my question, why do I get the impression that in the UK many are entrenched in a sort of "Ray Way" dogma to the exclusion of further research and experimentation

This social attitude is not Mr Mears fault, he is no more in control of the whims of fashion and social dynamics than anyone, otherwise he would have found a way to curb the childish 'chubby Mears' jokes

it reminds however me of a movement within the technical diving community a few years back called 'D.I.R.' "Doing it right" where everyone started wearing the same kit, the same way, and using the same techniques as George Irvine and Jarrod Jablonski.

This sort of doctrine is always inherently stifling to the progression of a subject and the development of new ideas
 

Mikey P

Full Member
Nov 22, 2003
2,257
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52
Glasgow, Scotland
Whilst I would disagree with any assertion that Mr Mears was the 'originator' of UK bushcraft (and there are many people listed above on who's shoulders he stands), I would say that he has done more than anyone else in the UK to showcase and popularise bushcraft to the wider public.

There is a very simple method of checking this: ask someone outside this website if they've heard of Richard Graves. Then ask who has heard of Ray Mears.

Quite a simplistic test, I agree, but it shows that he has brought bushcraft to the attention of many people who would otherwise never have considered it as a hobby/past time. Furthermore, look at the number of bushcraft schools with ex-Woodlore training staff at the helm.

He will be blamed and criticised by many people for the same reasons he is admired by many people - mainly because (in my opinion) he has made bushcraft much more accessible to all.

I don't put him on a pedestal and I don't agree with everything he says or does (as I am able to think for myself) but I recognise what he has done for the community. Like Stuart has pointed out above, however, there is a danger of not addressing any other points of view. There has been a mention of technical diving; I would also liken the situation to mountaineering. Traditional thinking was that the only way to climb 8000 metre peaks was with oxygen and using siege tactics; however, alpine-style attempts are far more common these days, despite a belief 50 years ago that it was impossible.

I would say that 'bushcraft' will change subtly over time - it's unlikely that we will see any seismic shifts but, in 10-15 years, we may see a new focus and new way of approaching the subject.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,809
1,479
Stourton,UK
I was at one of his Northern Wilderness talks last year, and he made a similar statement that bushcraft was a term not used in the UK until he started Woodlore. In that respect, he was right as it certainly wasn't used at that time. Now, it is something most people understand.

I think I proved the point Stu was making in my first post. We have forgotten about the people that pioneered bushcraft in this country, apart from Lofty Wiseman and Ray Mears, I'd be struggling. Oh, and Brummie Stokes of course :sad6:
 

wattsy

Native
Dec 10, 2009
1,111
3
Lincoln
I would also liken the situation to mountaineering. Traditional thinking was that the only way to climb 8000 metre peaks was with oxygen and using siege tactics; however, alpine-style attempts are far more common these days, despite a belief 50 years ago that it was impossible.

not true i'm afraid mate i'd say at least 80%, and probably a lot more, of all attempts on 8000ers are made as part of a siege style expedition using fixed camps and sherpa's. alpine style ascents are incredibly rare at that height
 

bothyman

Settler
Nov 19, 2003
811
3
Sutherland. Scotland.
Interesting, so how did People survive in the UK before Ray Mears came along ??

He just found an old word commercialised it, then tries to make out he invented it.

I find it rather sad, I like Ray Mears and think he does some really interesting stuff, but sometimes sadly he does come across as making out he is some sort of God and above everyone else.


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushcraft
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,809
1,479
Stourton,UK
Interesting, so how did People survive in the UK before Ray Mears came along ??

He just found an old word commercialised it, then tries to make out he invented it.

I find it rather sad, I like Ray Mears and think he does some really interesting stuff, but sometimes sadly he does come across as making out he is some sort of God and above everyone else.


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushcraft

I think everyone will agree he wasn't talking about the art of bushcraft, just the name or use of the name at that particular time. It was referred to as survival then and was the time when I was very much into it (calling it survival). Bushcraft is a term I only heard through going on courses in the mid ninieties. Like it or not, Ole Mearsey has made it an everyday word that 80% of the UK population now understand.
 

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