Why use a sleeping bag?

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leon-1

Full Member
Enviroment and weather dictate what you require. Cold wet is a killer probably more so than any other because people underestimate the effect that wet and cold can have, if you then couple those two with wind you have a potentially lethal combination.

If you can create a micro climate as you would with a tent or snow hole / quinzee then all you will be contending with is ambient temperature (in snow holes the temperature sits around 0 degrees), in a dry cold enviroment down clothing would work very well, but due to the different types of snow in damp cold enviroments you would end up soaked and water would sap the heat from your body pretty quickly leaving you susceptible to freezing cold injuries.

Spamel, Suffield is almost renowned for summer storms, the last time I was there we were informed of this and the fact that we would require warm and wet kit in the briefing beforehand (whoever gave the briefing should of been shot), storms in Canada in summer tend to be wet cold and in winter dry cold.

Sleeping bags are very good, for a start a sleeping bag can be opened up to cover two people which also allows you to share body warmth, nice if it's a lady not so nice if it is Ugg The Thug.

There is no requirement to be routing around in your pack for two items of kit as the one does the job which also makes them quick to use.

More on synthetic than down, but damp peices of equipment can be taken into a sleeping bag and dried out as you sleep, you cannot do this with a down jacket and trousers.

Someone with a broken leg can be put into a sleeping bag in cold enviroments with an inflatable splint on thier leg and stretchered off, with a two peice combo all you are really going to be able to do is stick thier jacket on and lay things over the casualties legs.

Blankets can have the same effect as a sleeping bag as people have a tendency to adopt the foetal position with the blanket wrapped firmly around them. So blankets / quilted liners are quite a good peice of kit in most enviroments.
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
Viking said:
What is snuggly?


Snuggly means warm and comfort - you said it was noisy do I guess snuggly doesnt quite fit the bill.

Personally I'd say a blizzard bag will keep you aline in the fowlest weather with reflecting the sun and radar to help you be found - snuggly it isnt designed to be!

As for Ex Medman, I hate to differ but I've been there almost every year between 83 and 95 often twice and staying on to play enemy and I have experienced the odd electrical storm and a maybe a down pour once or twice but never to the degree you describe it Leon.

Up at Wainwright we had rain for about three days on the Battle river once but thats miles from camp crowfoot.

Even when I lived there as perminant staff we never had wet weather - the snows in winter are another matter.
 

Viking

Settler
Oct 1, 2003
961
1
47
Sweden
www.nordicbushcraft.com
leon-1 said:
Enviroment and weather dictate what you require. Cold wet is a killer probably more so than any other because people underestimate the effect that wet and cold can have, if you then couple those two with wind you have a potentially lethal combination.

If you can create a micro climate as you would with a tent or snow hole / quinzee then all you will be contending with is ambient temperature (in snow holes the temperature sits around 0 degrees), in a dry cold enviroment down clothing would work very well, but due to the different types of snow in damp cold enviroments you would end up soaked and water would sap the heat from your body pretty quickly leaving you susceptible to freezing cold injuries.

There is no requirement to be routing around in your pack for two items of kit as the one does the job which also makes them quick to use.

More on synthetic than down, but damp peices of equipment can be taken into a sleeping bag and dried out as you sleep, you cannot do this with a down jacket and trousers.

Someone with a broken leg can be put into a sleeping bag in cold enviroments with an inflatable splint on thier leg and stretchered off, with a two peice combo all you are really going to be able to do is stick thier jacket on and lay things over the casualties legs.

Blankets can have the same effect as a sleeping bag as people have a tendency to adopt the foetal position with the blanket wrapped firmly around them. So blankets / quilted liners are quite a good peice of kit in most enviroments.

But if the jacket and trousers were syntetichs the wetness would not be a problem. That the temprature falls and things get wet is not a problem, last year in Norway i used more or less only natural materials like cotton and wool even my sleeping bag´s outer fabric was cotton. One day the temprature dropped and we got loads of wet snow and me who only under some tree´s for windprotection found a wet sleeping bag. But I slept in it during the night without any problems, so did another guy who got 0.5 litres of water in his sleeping bag.

When it comes to dry up things (like socks) I have found that the best is to dry them close to your body instead of having things everywhere in your sleeping bag.

In an emergency like a broken leg a person kan easily be fully dressed with a jacket and then just zip on the trousers.

You might have to be looking for 2 pieces of equipment but you carry 2 instead of three. Saving weight is saving strength.
 

Moine

Forager
In summer, I often just make a pile of debris and wrap myself in my poncho and/or in an old wool blanket. Setup time : about 39 secs. Comfy enough to sleep.

In winter, I like a sleeping bag mainly because it's warmer. A good sleeping bag is to clothes what mitts are to gloves. That being said, gloves can be warm enough, depending on the conditions ;)

Cheers,

David
 

leon-1

Full Member
Gary said:
As for Ex Medman, I hate to differ but I've been there almost every year between 83 and 95 often twice and staying on to play enemy and I have experienced the odd electrical storm and a maybe a down pour once or twice but never to the degree you describe it Leon.

I was out there in 1997 as part of OPFOR it snowed and was pretty bitter for about a week.

Viking said:
When it comes to dry up things (like socks) I have found that the best is to dry them close to your body instead of having things everywhere in your sleeping bag

These are still dried next to your body, just in the sleeping bag an larger items can be laid out flattish inside the bag.


Viking said:
In an emergency like a broken leg a person kan easily be fully dressed with a jacket and then just zip on the trousers.

Its is quicker and easier to put someone in a sleeping bag and will cause them a lot less discomfort if they have a broken leg than messing around with zip on trousers.

Viking said:
Why not just use a bivy bag and sleep with clothes on and during winter and colder times of the year add down jacket and trousers that you still can wear when get up in the morning still keeping you warm and can be used on a cold days for slow activities.

You brought up the down Jacket and Trousers not me. Not all bivvy bags breath overly well and you can still end up wet with a soggy down jacket and trousers especially if you are exhaling into the bivvy bag because you have pulled it over your head.

Viking said:
But if the jacket and trousers were syntetichs the wetness would not be a problem.

Very true, but synthetics take up more room and weigh more than down, so there is a bit of a catch 22 about this one.
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
50
49
Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
I think most of the pro's and con's have been talked about already but all I would say is that "Sleeping bags", have only really been around in the last hundred years or so.....and we humans have been about a lot longer.... so clearly we don't "need" them.

Stuart from here went to canada and slept out on Mors's course in I think -20 without a sleeping bag so it can be done.

As others have said, don't do this if you don't know what you're doing but if you are experienced then why not try (under semi-safe conditions) different alternatives before you deside they won't work.

To me it seems like a classis case of carry more (whether it be dossbag or downjacket) to cover limited knowlege (Moine...you're the exception so far in your debris pile...good on ya Mate :) ).

Just my thoughts anyway.... and I do use a dossbag in the winter usually too (but spent a night out in -6 last year in my local woods with just a woolen blanket and fire and wasn't cold at all). In the summer I swap between using nothing, using a wool blanket and using a light weight dossbag... depends what I'm doing but I'd never say you "Need" a sleeping bag or that you "must" have one.

Cheers,

Bam.
 

Graham_S

Squirrely!
Feb 27, 2005
4,041
65
50
Saudi Arabia
i like to remove clothing where possible when using a sleeping bag. i find i'm warmer than if i stay clothed.
otoh, i have a jordanian herders jacket that i sometimes sleep in. it's an ankle length coat made of wool blanket lined with fake fur. very toasty.
 

arctic hobo

Native
Oct 7, 2004
1,630
4
37
Devon *sigh*
www.dyrhaug.co.uk
I'm sure there are people here who know a lot more about history than me, but didn't people used to wear thick wool cloaks which they also slept in? This would be warm, wouldn't catch fire, would cover you like a sleeping bag and would be fairly water resistant too. Put yourself in a Fjellduken and have a glowing fire and you're sorted! Obviously wool is very heavy, especially thick wool, but if it's your day to day clothes you're really cutting down on weight there and not taking a sleeping bag. It'd make your pack a lot smaller too :)
Maybe Toddy could comment on this, she seems to know about this sort of thing, but it seems to me to be a very neat arrangement :cool:
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
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Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
Graham_S said:
i like to remove clothing where possible when using a sleeping bag. i find i'm warmer than if i stay clothed.
otoh, i have a jordanian herders jacket that i sometimes sleep in. it's an ankle length coat made of wool blanket lined with fake fur. very toasty.

Yep, I'm the same...like to strip off to get in a dossbag and leave my clothes at the bottom of it to stay warm for the morning.

I've got an ex-swedish army great coat that I have used like your herders jacket before, it's from about 1950 and is heavy cotton outer, full length to my calfs and the inside is made of about three full sheep skins, with a coller that folds up to about the top of my ears!!!.....darn it's a warm coat!
Johan, did your army use them to sleep in back then? It'd be the dog's danglies for stag duty :D


I often wear my woolen blanket like a traditional kilt (halfed round my waist, held there with a thick leather belt and the rest up and over my shoulder) and it's surprisingly warm worn like that (these Scots know about cold and crappy weather you know ;) ) then if the wind comes up I wrap the shoulder bit more round me and could carry on walking or happily settle down in a debris pile and sleep like that.
I'm guessing that's what the Highlanders did but I'm sure Toddy can tell us more? ? ? :D
I learned how to wear them this way watching Peter Duncan doing it with a real kilt on BluePeter when I was a kid! lol
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
In reply to Leon and Gary, I don't know the norm for BATUS summer weather, but I didn't take any chances. It rained for 18 of 28 days, so it was a quagmire, everything got minging, there was no escaping the mud.....

....unless you had two vehicle fires and got towed back to the FMA!! I don't want to dampen (no pun intended!) anyones spirits if they are off on a trip to Canada, the weather can be lovely, but that's the thing; it changes so quickly.

The day before this picture was taken, both of us were cursing the rain that had us drenched, and we had our full goretex on way before the weather hit us, because you see rain falling about 10 km away on the prairie and it looks weird!!

HPIM2142.jpg


Sorry about the bloody great camera case in the foreground!! A prime example of what happens to an overworked 30 year old, I'm talking about the tank here! This was the start of our 5 day camping expedition awaiting spares :rolleyes:

Spamel
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
spamel said:
In reply to Leon and Gary, I don't know the norm for BATUS summer weather, but I didn't take any chances. It rained for 18 of 28 days, so it was a quagmire, everything got minging, there was no escaping the mud.....

....unless you had two vehicle fires and got towed back to the FMA!! I don't want to dampen (no pun intended!) anyones spirits if they are off on a trip to Canada, the weather can be lovely, but that's the thing; it changes so quickly.

The day before this picture was taken, both of us were cursing the rain that had us drenched, and we had our full goretex on way before the weather hit us, because you see rain falling about 10 km away on the prairie and it looks weird!!

HPIM2142.jpg


Sorry about the bloody great camera case in the foreground!! A prime example of what happens to an overworked 30 year old, I'm talking about the tank here! This was the start of our 5 day camping expedition awaiting spares :rolleyes:

Spamel

Spam didnt you say that it was freak weather though? Worst storms in ten years?

Your right about the weather changing at speed though mate, did you ever get to see an electircal storm on the plains? Fantastic!


I'm adding this as an after thought but I wonder if the weather fronts are changing there? Its been some 9 or 10 years since I was last there and I honest dont remember such bad weather!

Any of our canuk readers aware of changes in the global weather patterns particularly over Alberta?

I know our weather appears to be changing a little each year, global warming so I would guess maybe its changing world wide too - maybe the praries do get more storms these days. Scary thought though!
 

arctic hobo

Native
Oct 7, 2004
1,630
4
37
Devon *sigh*
www.dyrhaug.co.uk
Interesting as this is :) we're getting a little off topic aren't we?
I am interested in sleeping bag replacements (especially as a bit of a sleeping bag fetishist), especially if they're clothes-orientated, as this means it's taking up no pack space. Does anyone have any other ideas?
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,691
710
-------------
Viking said:
Why use a sleeping bag really, they are heavy bulky and boring and cold to get out of in the morning. Why not just use a bivy bag and sleep with clothes on and during winter and colder times of the year add down jacket and trousers that you still can wear when get up in the morning still keeping you warm and can be used on a cold days for slow activities.

We used this system when I was in the army (but without the bivy bag) and it worked good then. Why should it not work now?

Cos where I live it's not cold enough to warrant wearing down stuff through the day (I would sweat my nads off) and at night I am less active so a sleeping bag makes more sense. :)
 

Viking

Settler
Oct 1, 2003
961
1
47
Sweden
www.nordicbushcraft.com
bambodoggy said:
Johan, did your army use them to sleep in back then?

I don´t know but it wold not surprise me if they did, I know people that have slept in snow with the old 58 woolen trousers on.

We used m90 system when I was in the army and the warm jacket is called "coma coat" by the soldiers becasue when you put it on you get very warm and comy :D
 

Viking

Settler
Oct 1, 2003
961
1
47
Sweden
www.nordicbushcraft.com
arctic hobo said:
Interesting as this is :) we're getting a little off topic aren't we?
I am interested in sleeping bag replacements (especially as a bit of a sleeping bag fetishist), especially if they're clothes-orientated, as this means it's taking up no pack space. Does anyone have any other ideas?

Since I know you like Nanok, they recommend using their sleeping bags along with their SF jacket and trousers to make it warmer.
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
50
49
Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
arctic hobo said:
Interesting as this is :) we're getting a little off topic aren't we?
I am interested in sleeping bag replacements (especially as a bit of a sleeping bag fetishist), especially if they're clothes-orientated, as this means it's taking up no pack space. Does anyone have any other ideas?

Since I was at the same lecture that Johan was and heard what was said and the full explanation behind it, I'd say for what you do Chris (your cold/dry arctic stuff) then Johan's suggestion of ditching the dossbag in favour of a down jacket/trousers combo is a very workable solution to carrying less and being more efficient. As Johan says the lecturer has over 50 very well respected years of experience and has trained the likes of Lars Falt so certainly knows what he's talking about.

I understand where the guys on here are coming from as they are talking from a UK weather/ethos side of things but as you spend more time in Norway and Sweden I'd say have a go at what Johan is suggesting, I think it might suit your style of bushcraft buddy :D

Hope that helps,

Bam. :D
 

swamp donkey

Forager
Jun 25, 2005
145
0
64
uk
Since when was a CET a Tank?

Any way back on subject. When I first went to the Alps in 74 we all had pied de elephant. (Elephants Foot) These where the bottom half of a sleepind bag which poppered or zipped on to your down jacket and you pulled your arms in . Bloody marvolous, for some reason I never quite understood they went out of fashion. every now and then I think that I will make a new one but never get around to it . Sleeping bag is just more versitile. tent.bothy,hut spare room etc.

Someone mentioned Peary ,dont forget it was his nergo slave who got to wherever first. (in you actually believe he got to the Pole at all) as he had him out clearing the way! or that he got caught by his misses shacked up with an inuit lady when she descided to pay him a suprise visit!
 

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