Why?

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BlueTrain

Nomad
Jul 13, 2005
482
0
77
Near Washington, D.C.
It occurs to me that there is a dramatic difference in the knives and other implements chosen by those who GO to the woods for whatever reason, be it hunting, exploring, hiding out or whatnot, and those who live in the woods and call it home. I am thinking here mainly of those who were mentioned earlier as "natives" (another word may have been used-I don't care for it myself) who were using light and thin knives. I suspect that a normal European or American (All of North and South America) would use only the most casual of tools around the house and would treat his knives, axes, billhooks, grubbing hoes, sythes and all that other stuff about like he treats his hammers, though most would keep them reasonably sharp and certainly bring them inside at night.

Although there are a couple of stores around here that sell the Granfors axes, no one I know at home would dream of spending that much on an ax. In fact, where I grew up, in town, a few people still used wood burning stoves and they mostly left their double bitted axes at the wood pile. Many people in the country still used wood burning stoves but more used coal. I am a little surprised that I have been considering the purchase of a double bit ax myself and perhaps a heavy duty crosscut saw. The same store that carries (at least one) Granfors axes has a heavy duty, Austrian made crosscut for under $50 and a decent American made double bit ax is about $35. Even so, I am thinking twice about spending that much money. So far, I am getting buy on a Swedish made bow saw that I bought in 1968 (the same year I bought a Land Rover 88) and a Hudson's Bay pattern camping ax. If you keep the ax sharp you can cut through an 18-inch tree just about as fast as you can with a larger ax but it takes more effort. But anyway, my hands aren't used to doing work like that.

It would be very interesting to hear what someone from Malasia or Borneo would have to say about their knives. Do you suppose they use axes, too?
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
What about tomahawks? I've never used one, but would like to find a decent tomahawk to have a go on. Somebody somewhere mentioned the benefits of a 'hawk being that the handle can be taken off leaving a hand held blade, and that the handle can be replaced easily if it broke whilst on a trip with a branch cut and whittled to shape. If I remember correctly, it was somebody on BB who made two 'hawks from a motorbike chain. Ring any bells anyone?

Can anyone make a more informed response to the benefits of the 'hawk, and whether it is better than the GB axes, also a good supplier of the 'hawk.

Cheers

Spamel

PS. Just read the thread from start to finish, some very good points. I have to agree with Bambodoggy, The MoD crowbar is grrrrrrrrrreat!
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
spamel said:
What about tomahawks? I've never used one, but would like to find a decent tomahawk to have a go on. Somebody somewhere mentioned the benefits of a 'hawk being that the handle can be taken off leaving a hand held blade, and that the handle can be replaced easily if it broke whilst on a trip with a branch cut and whittled to shape. If I remember correctly, it was somebody on BB who made two 'hawks from a motorbike chain. Ring any bells anyone?

Can anyone make a more informed response to the benefits of the 'hawk, and whether it is better than the GB axes, also a good supplier of the 'hawk.

Cheers

Spamel

PS. Just read the thread from start to finish, some very good points. I have to agree with Bambodoggy, The MoD crowbar is grrrrrrrrrreat!

Spam I have a hawk made by GB! These are expensive as they are made to order but worth every penny IMO - I can do with it all I can do with a GB SFA but it is a little lighter a lot more flexible in its uses as you have already pointed out and much more aesthetically pleasing to use and hold!

I still like my Leukku (sami knife) as a camp knife and in combo with the BFK this pair can do pretty much anything I want of them - but lately I am more and more drawn to having to choose which one I carry with my BFK - hawk or leukku, decisions decisions!!

Cold steel appearently do a good one (hawk) but I ordered one some time ago and it never arrived, when I questioned them they didnt seem interested in dealing with uk buyers and as they hadnt taken my money from my account I just cancelled the order and got the GB.
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
50
**********************
It would be very interesting to hear what someone from Malasia or Borneo would have to say about their knives. Do you suppose they use axes, too?

the various ethnic groups living in borneo do not use axes, An axe has very little practical value in a tropical forest.

all heavy work is done with a parang:

tan.jpg
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
50
**********************
I think the conclusion of this thread can be surmised in three statements.

1. Different tools are suitable for different jobs and environments, no one tool works everywhere.

2. peoples opinions and preferences for tools vary, what a person accomplishes with their tool is more important than what tool they use.

3. That whilst a 4 inch long carbon steel fixed blade is what the majority of people would recommend to someone as their first knife for a temperate climate, what they choose to use there after is up to them.
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
Stuart said:
3. That whilst a 4 inch long carbon steel fixed blade is what the majority of people would recommend to someone as their first knife for a temperate climate, what they choose to use there after is up to them.


I agree with your other summary statements Stu, but for this I would say for NO3,

A 3 - 4 inch knife with a good carbon steel blade of the correct temper is what the majority of people would recommend to someone as their first training knife but also for any climate or further 'training/uses'. Such a knife should also form the foundation of any cutting tool combination used in almost any world climate zone as such a knife will make camp chores and other small scale tasks easier and safer while the large camp tool (axe - machete - parang - bow saw ect) is a safe and handy tool for larger heavier work. Such a combination should thus be formed as appropriate to the local terrian and tool preference - i.e see what the locals use as they wil be the best judges of what the best large tool is for there world.

When in Rome ................
 

BorderReiver

Full Member
Mar 31, 2004
2,693
16
Norfolk U.K.
Gary said:
I agree with your other summary statements Stu, but for this I would say for NO3,


When in Rome ................

and.... Whatever lights your candle. :)

If you enjoy using it and it's effective in your hands,end of story. ;)
 

JimH

Nomad
Dec 21, 2004
306
1
Stalybridge
Gary said:
Cold steel appearently do a good one (hawk) but I ordered one some time ago and it never arrived, when I questioned them they didnt seem interested in dealing with uk buyers and as they hadnt taken my money from my account I just cancelled the order and got the GB.

I've got a Cold Steel "Trail Hawk".

They are cast(by the looks of them) in Taiwan and don't come within yelling distance of GB quality, more on a par with a Draper or Rolson hatchet.

Handle is reasonable tho' and the thing cuts OK now reprofiled, metal a bit soft, however.

Was only 15 quid, though :D :D

Jim.
 

BOD

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Stuart said:
the various ethnic groups living in borneo do not use axes, An axe has very little practical value in a tropical forest.

all heavy work is done with a parang:

tan.jpg

Ahem! Not quite. You are correctly describing the present but not the past.

While the Penan who are nomadic and semi nomadic and who live in the forests do not seem to use axes, the same cannot be said for the Orang Ulu - the Kayans, Kenyah and so on.

Being riverine peoples and long house dwellers they know and used the ax. The huge long canoes and long houses were made with hardwoods felled by an axe and shaped with an adze. Today in older longhouses you can see the adze and occassionally axe marks.

The decline of the axe is due to logging and the introduction of the chainsaw and the availbility of sawn timber, plywood and chip board for boats and longhouse floors. Cement is replacing wooden pillars. The same result as replacing a log cabin with plywood and corrugated iron.

A sad state of affairs. Lying on a longhouse floor and running your hand and eye along the texture of the wood is a great experience.
 

falling rain

Native
Oct 17, 2003
1,737
29
Woodbury Devon
martin said:
I was converted to the Sami knife while in Sweden just recently. When I saw what could be done with it in skilled hands I was amazed.
Guess what I bought myself from Attleborough's :rolleyes: yeah you got it right a 9 inch Sami Knife :D
I set myself a task, make a fire using only the knife, a firesteel and 6 inch diameter 11 inch long birch log. First I peeled the bark off the log and stuck it in my pocket for later on. Next I split the in half using the knife and a batton, then split it in to smaller bits. The small bits I made into feather sticks, the Sami Knife makes the best feather sticks I've ever seen. Next it was just a case of making a ball of the bark and arranging the feathersticks over the top.
Using the back of the knife and the fire steel I through a load of sparks on to the bark and it caught first time :D
I am very impressed with the knife, it goes from splitting logs to shaving really fine feathersticks, a top piece of kit. I would recomend them to anyone.

Another fan over here......... My son gave me a Sami knife (9") from attleborough for Christmas 2004 and I've used it for splitting billets, feather sticks, gutting fish prepping vegetables, cutting up meat , splitting and shaving wood. It sharpens well and good sparks from the firesteel with it too. Excellent general purpose tool. :headbang:
 

sam_acw

Native
Sep 2, 2005
1,081
10
41
Tyneside
I've read an article in a Tactical Knives magazine on Hudson Bay camp knives. These are typically 9 inch blades.
Part of there usefulness was attached to the buffalo hunters (big animal=big knife?).
It states however that their main use was as a cleaver (in the style of a chinese chef's cleaver prehaps)

Quotes on the usage (from Tactical Knives November 2005, pp19-22, Dan Shechtman)

"Here is a knife made to order for the hunter or cook responsible for breaking out chunks of carcasses of the game animals to be served up to the trappers"

"The Edmonton hunters always use large heavy knives for the purpose of cutting through branches when traversing dense fir woods that cover a great part of that country; some of them use extremely heavy ones, half knife, half axe - like a narrow sort of butchers cleaver with a point instead of a squared end"

(on butchering buffalo) "The half breed goes through this whole process with a large and very heavy knife lika a narrow pointed cleaver which is also used for cutting wood and performing the offices of a hatchet"

An example can be seen here
 

sam_acw

Native
Sep 2, 2005
1,081
10
41
Tyneside
I've thought a bit more about this and I've come to a conclusion that when camp chores are mentioned a large part of it is cooking for a number of people.
If you watch any chef you'll see them using a knife about 10" long most of the time and as the knife does't need to be portable then this is probably chosen simply for its abilities.
 

pierre girard

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 28, 2005
1,018
16
71
Hunter Lake, MN USA
In the fall, towards hunting season, we start to see a lot of people wearing really large knives. It is a good way to tell the city people apart from those who live here.
 

wizard

Nomad
Jan 13, 2006
472
2
77
USA
When I was in the Army I carried a Randall #1 with a 7in blade or a Ka-Bar with a 7in blade. Both pretty handy for field work but I mainly looked at them as weapons first and camp chore knives as a secondary task. Most of my actual knife work was done with a SAK Farmer model!
I find a 4 to 5 in blade is all I ever need for normal bushcraft, my favorite is the Stewart Marsh 11CM Bushcraft knife. Anything over 5 inches is way too much, unless of course, you need a knife as a weapon.
Jungles require a good machete, 14in or more. A good stainless knife is also handy, something like a Mora, expendable. Often indigenous peoples take a liking to bladed tools and often they make good gifts or trade items. Never carry an expensive blade to a third-world country, unless you are willing to leave it behind!
As for Rambo, well I am sure he retired to his motorcoach between movie takes and did fine with that 9+ inch knife! From my perspective, they weigh too much, too hard to carry and too hard to do fine cutting with! Just my preferences:)
Cheers!
 

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