True Instinctive shooting?

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stovie

Need to contact Admin...
Oct 12, 2005
1,658
20
59
Balcombes Copse
Cannot remember who said it (sure someone will know) "Aim small, miss small..."
I translate this as, sight focussed not on the target, but the centre of the target, and the rest is accomplished with hours of repetitive loosing...I'm out of practice at the moment, but within a few days I begin to regain my previous form...

 

marcelxl

Settler
May 2, 2010
638
0
Kamloops, B.C.
You do know as soon as the arrow is loosed and its a strange thing............. you begin to think your arrow into the kill zone (Check out/youtube Byron Ferguson and his "become the arrow")

As long as I have done archery I wanted to be able to shoot truly instinctive and during the winter and the beginning of the outdoor season when shooting the compound even at 100yds I was drawing, getting settled and focusing and I was noticing that as i took my eye to the sights I was already on the target, through muscle memory? either way it made me think that if you shoot enough your subconscious does alot for you

I popped by my mates yesterday to have a play with his new longbow (he has a little range in his garden) and straight away I was getting an OK group and I strangely knew I would! I have never really shot a true longbow before....... I think the only thing I sort of think about is looking down the arrow
I am still a long way of hitting polo mints and aspirins out of the sky but its a journey I am loving right now!
 

AussieVic

Forager
Jan 24, 2011
160
5
Victoria, Australia
You do know as soon as the arrow is loosed and its a strange thing............. you begin to think your arrow into the kill zone (Check out/youtube Byron Ferguson and his "become the arrow")

As long as I have done archery I wanted to be able to shoot truly instinctive and during the winter and the beginning of the outdoor season when shooting the compound even at 100yds I was drawing, getting settled and focusing and I was noticing that as i took my eye to the sights I was already on the target, through muscle memory? either way it made me think that if you shoot enough your subconscious does alot for you

I agree totally. Its the Zen of Archery.
 

finite

Member
Apr 28, 2011
22
0
Sydney
www.bushcraftoz.com
For me instinctive shooting comes from hours and hours of practice. I never tried aiming my arrows and I always have my eye on the target through the whole draw.

When I first started I had allot of problems with inconsistency. Thinking about all the tops and tricks I had read started to put me off. The most important for me was a contestant anchor point with the bow string and a consistent posture.

I also found standing slightly more upright helped this. I know alot of guys can be quite hunched but I found somewhere in between much more accurate, for me at least.

Im not a spiritual person in anyway but I agree with the zen comment. There is a very strange consistency. When I draw the bow and my mind is slightly off the task I tend to be way of with my shots. Other times I feel focused and comfortable the whole draw and its like there is no doubt in my mind I will hit it before I even fire and I do.
 

8thsinner

Nomad
Dec 12, 2005
395
1
44
London
That McDaniel dude sounds interesting,
I have always found I have to have a sort of violent focus, almost as if getting p*****d off just not quite angry, but the intent makes a big difference to my shots.
As soon as I start thinking, much like everyone else, I seem to miss, but I still miss consistently.
The challenge for me is to concentrate on posture then work on the shot.
I don't want to get into the habit of shooting good with bad form...
 

mace242

Native
Aug 17, 2006
1,015
0
52
Yeovil, Somerset, UK
I shoot primitive and modern recurve too. I don't use sights with the recurve and am not allowed to with the primitive bows. Like others I trained with sights on the recurve and put them away a long time ago. Now I just get into my rythmn and fire away. I don't even try to aim much at all and my club instructor says that I shoot far too fast and don't think enough about it. Though my scores are pretty good and I'm happy.

Practice on different grounds and covers is key I think.
 

2trapper

Forager
Apr 11, 2011
211
1
Italy
Another interesting elements can be added by centro asiatic and Middle East Archery. probably some of you already know Kassai and horseback archery. I think Hungarian and Mongolian archery are probably two of the most instictive ways of shooting with bow. Searching Youtube with keywords "Kassai" or "Horseback Archery" and you'll find several techniques
 

Xunil

Settler
Jan 21, 2006
671
3
55
North East UK
www.bladesmith.co.uk
One of our greatly respected county coaches is always getting on my case when he visits out small club for not having a consistent anchor point. He always twists about my 'floating' anchor and tries all ways to get me to change my shooting style. Every time I do, it all goes to hell :rolleyes:

I decided a long time ago that technically I may be a bad shot but in terms of putting supper on the table (which is my own benchmark for success) I'm pretty handy, so...

I have been lucky enough to have bowhunted a lot in Canada and North America and my rubbish technique has still enjoyed its share of success in the field. I also practice mainly at under 20 yards, because that is my self-imposed limit for bowhunting. I can take longer shots, but the hunt is all about the stalk and I would rather pass a 25 yard shot up or blow it trying to get closer. Trophy hunters won't understand that mentality.

A few observations, purely from my own somewhat weird perspective:

1. Size is everything :yikes: - put me in front of a straw boss and my arrows go all over the place. Hang a tennis ball 20 yards away (set it swinging if you like) or roll one down a gentle incline and stand back and watch the fun :)

For me, a small target encourages success, but clubs are (understandably) geared to teaching using a competition target archery mentality, which is fine as it stands - it just doesn't suit everybody.

2. Recognise and work within your limitations - straying beyond your own natural limitations is going to consistently introduce failure and sooner or later that is going to screw your head into greater failure, and so continues a downward spiral where it is easy to get despondent at repeated poor results.

3. Strive to push the boundaries of your limitations - while accepting your own personal limitations (which may be very different to your shooting partner(s)) you should still put some effort into pushing the envelope to increase your skills, but this needs to be done in a disciplined and controlled fashion and mixed with the reassuring success of working within your limitations.

4. Concentrate on the successes and learn to ignore the failures - the biggest influencing factor that guarantees failure in any sport is letting your last screw-up spoil your next attempt. Learning to 'let it all go' (very Luke Skywalker) is a lot harder than it sounds but it is essential to success. Everyone can and will screw up handsomely but more fool you if you allow that to stuff your next shot - each shot offers its own opportunities for success so allowing it to be spoiled unnecessarily is something we all have to learn how to overcome.

5. Accept constructive criticism, but don't feel obliged to bow to it (no matter where it comes from) - I always listen to constructive criticism but I also reserve the right to ignore it :)

6. Don't be afraid to think outside the box

That last point is something I am very passionate about. I saw a documentary years ago on the Kalahari bushmen where their kids were out with small bows and arrows looking for any suitable game. This was how they learned to shoot and hunt, and any success represented a valuable addition to the communal food pot and the only consistent thing about their shooting was how inconsistent it was !

They used floating anchor, string walking from shot to shot where the grip of the bow hand moved up or down the bow or the arrow may have been nocked at a different position, and yet they were shooting small birds after stalking them which is something many technically gifted archers I know would struggle to do.

That probably just goes to show something, if you think about it a little...

Another aspect where alternative thinking can reap rewards is in terms of your kit.

There is an interesting comment above from bbdave:

I used a 65lb Border recurve and an 80lb english long bow the poundage being high to keep arrow tradjectory as flat as possible

That is a commonly adopted method of shooting longbow and all too often ends up in the archer struggling by being overbowed. I am not saying that bbdave is overbowed, but a lot of archers end up that way when they take the higher draw weight to (hopefully) gain a flatter trajectory.

Over the last few years and after a lot of surgeries I started re-examining my shooting at every level and my kit came under serious scrutiny. I used to shoot heavy longbows (I mean really heavy) but there is a cut-off point where higher draw weight fails to introduce significant performance differences.

My solution to the problem, given that I could still shoot heavier bows, but not as comfortably, was to drop my draw weight to 50 - 60 lb max and build much, much faster bows. As a direct result I can shoot for hours on end without any overbowing and even my 50 lb longbows are shooting far faster and flatter than most 80 lb plus bows could ever dream of. I can more or less point blank out to 50 yards or so and my low-mass longbows shoot so fast that most people who try them go wayyyyyyyyy over the target when they use the same elevation they normally would on a standard bow :)

Gains can also be made by changing your string - a 'skinny' low strand count Spectra string on its own can bump your arrow speed by up to 10 - 15 fps.

Shifting the balance point of your arrows can also work wonders, as can any one of a number of other little tweaks.

And let's not forget that straight longbows shoot more efficiently (for the most part) with heavier arrows, so off the peg Spruce or Cedar shafts may not offer the best performance from you bow to begin with.

I have a 90 lb bamboo backed Osage straight longbow (of the English type (mostly) ;)) that had unpleasant hand shock on loose and was a difficult bow to control. I changed the arrows from Spruce to much heavier shafting (around 900 grains total weight) and it is an incredibly polite, sedate and easy bow to shoot as a result. I still shoot it once in a while when I am in the mood for a tussle :)

I think clubs have their place in giving people a basic grounding but there is not nearly enough field/instinctive/primitive archery experience out there to effectively guide anyone going down that road, so it is hardly surprising that so many of us go through very frustrating periods where we try to find our respective level.

A couple of tennis balls or those hard dog balls you can buy are great for just lobbing out in front of you and taking pot shots at when roving. They are especially good is you have running water where you can shoot, since a tennis ball bobbing down a stream makes a seriously challenging target.

Push your boundaries some of the time, and capitalise on your strengths the rest of the time. Don't be afraid to completely re-examine your kit and how it works and once you learn how to use it you can smugly shut any naysayers up by plopping your arrows into the mark with seemingly little effort :)

Just some random ramblings from a lifelong instinctive longbow archer and bowyer and, as usual, you can feel free to disagree with any of the above - it might suit me but that's not to say it will also suit you :)
 
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Large Sack

Settler
May 24, 2010
665
0
Dorset
"I take it that we're not talking about instinctive shooting at live quarry? "

Sorry, that may have come across as though I was sat up on a highish horse...not intended.

I, like a lot of others here have been hunting for years. I wouldn't, however, be too happy with the thought that animals were being used for moving target practice for instinctive shooting purposes (yes, a lot of the time we track a moving target, but that's different, and partly the point I'm making). OK I know there's a pecking order (pun intended) when it comes to offing vermin and such, no-one's going to shed too many tears over another dead crow, pigeon...even cute fluffy bunny...but, hypocrysy or not, I don't think any of us would like to see larger prey wandering around injured because some idiot thought it would be a good idea to loose an arrow/shot/bb/pellet/whatever from the hip (exaggeration).

Cheers
Sack
 

GordonM

Settler
Nov 11, 2008
866
51
Virginia, USA
In reference to post #32...Very well stated, Xunil! Your commitment and experience come to the fore. Though this thread is primarily about archery, what you have written is relevant to most any type of shooting sport. Ultimately, even after excellent instruction, what one works out and learns about one's own methods is the most important part of individual progress! I have found for me, participating in archery (targets and hunting), small, upland and big game hunting with shotguns, rifles, muzzle loaders and handguns, participating in competetion shooting shotguns, rifles and handguns and having learned the martial use of small arms, as an infantry soldier, have all worked in similar ways to improve my ability in each pursuit. This applies to both the shooting techniques and the hunting skills. Many folks pursue hunting for different reasons, the skill of the stalk, the trophy, the method of hunting instrument used, among other reasons. I do not have any problems with any of their reasons and welcome them all afield. For me, the hunt is about the rich reward of the food earned from the hunt.

Gordy
 
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Siberianfury

Native
Jan 1, 1970
1,534
6
mendip hills, somerset
"I take it that we're not talking about instinctive shooting at live quarry? "

Sorry, that may have come across as though I was sat up on a highish horse...not intended.

I, like a lot of others here have been hunting for years. I wouldn't, however, be too happy with the thought that animals were being used for moving target practice for instinctive shooting purposes (yes, a lot of the time we track a moving target, but that's different, and partly the point I'm making). OK I know there's a pecking order (pun intended) when it comes to offing vermin and such, no-one's going to shed too many tears over another dead crow, pigeon...even cute fluffy bunny...but, hypocrysy or not, I don't think any of us would like to see larger prey wandering around injured because some idiot thought it would be a good idea to loose an arrow/shot/bb/pellet/whatever from the hip (exaggeration).

Cheers
Sack

the only way to shoot a catapult effectivly is to use it instictivly, and it can be extreamly accurate.
 

Large Sack

Settler
May 24, 2010
665
0
Dorset
the only way to shoot a catapult effectivly is to use it instictivly, and it can be extreamly accurate.

Yes, that's fine ( I have my own black widow so I am aware of the limitations of aiming)...as I wouldn't expect/hope anyone to try and fell a deer with a large cal bb
 

calgarychef

Forager
May 19, 2011
168
1
woking
I shoot bows instinctivly and in Canada I kept my family totally supplied with meat with the bow, that's a lot of meat by the way. I started out as a kid with a sling shot/catapult and learned with that, the bow wasn't as easy top shoot though. Once you have your form down and it's repeated every time you shoot, the arrow will hit in the same spot every time. Once that's accomplished (took 2 years for me) then you will be able to consistently hit objects at a set distance. So the next step is start varying the distances to "program" your brain to shoot at different distances and target presentations. This doesn't happen in a linear fashion and you will want to mix up the steps for the fun of shooting itself. Just remember that consistency in equipment and form is the basis for accuracy.
 

tomongoose

Nomad
Oct 11, 2010
321
0
Plymouth
Not archery but amazing instinctive shooting

[video=youtube;r7HN7THecwg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7HN7THecwg&feature=related[/video]
 

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