Survival situation - what would you do?

[Bootstrap Bob]

I've just finished a training course on influencing and persuading people and part of that course was to put you in the following situation. The aim of the exercise was to work on it as an individual and then to convince people that your conclusions were correct and finally combine your work to come up with a group submission.

Any how putting the group bit aside and concentrating on the situation which is more relevant to us I would be interested to hear what the general consensus would be if they were in that situation and compare it with what the "Experts" answers were.


The Situation

It is approximately 10.00 am in mid July and you have just crash landed in the Sonora Desert in the south west of the USA. Your light, twin-engined plane, containing the bodies of the pilot and the co-pilot has completely burned out, only the frame remains. None of the rest of you have been injured.

The pilot was unable to notify anyone of your position before you crashed. However, ground sightings taken shortly before the crash suggested that you are about 65 miles (105km) off-course from your originally filed flight plan. A few moments before the crash the pilot indicated that the nearest known habitation was a mining camp 70 miles (113km) away in the north east direction.

The immediate area is quite flat and appears to be rather barren except for occasional cacti. The last weather report indicated that the temperature would reach 110F ( 43C) which means that the temperature within 30cm of the surface would hit 130F (54C).

You are dressed in light-weather clothing – short sleeved shirts, shorts, socks and leather shoes. Everyone has a handkerchief. Collectively your pockets contain £2.53 in change, £43 in notes, a packet of cigarettes and a ball point pen.

Your group (12 total) has decided to stick together whatever you decide to do and before the plane caught fire you were able to salvage the following 15 items. How would you rank these of importance for your survival? 1 being the most important and 15 the least important. I would suggest you copy and paste the list and put a number to the side of each item. Comments are optional but would be interesting to hear.

One litre of water per person
Flashlight (4 cells)
0.45 Calibre pistol
A pair of sunglasses per person
Two litres of 180 proof vodka
Sectional air map of the area
Magnetic compass (with magnifying glass)
Compress kit with gauze
Plastic raincoat (large)
Pocket knife
Parachute (red & white)
Book entitled 'Edible animals of the desert'
Bottle of salt tablets (1000 tablets)
One top coat per person
Cosmetic mirror

 

[Karl82]

1.One litre of water per person
water is a priority
2.Parachute (red & white)
use to rig a shelter to get out of the sun
3.Magnetic compass (with magnifying glass)
driection you already have a good idear of where you are
4.Sectional air map of the area
you know where you are so you can find out where your best option is to head map might also show water sources rivers and such
5.Pocket knife
you cant replicate a cutting tool in nature easily
6.One top coat per person
helps keep the sun off you for exposure and warmer at night
7.Flashlight (4 cells)
i would travel at night in the desert so use to check you map/compass at night
8.Cosmetic mirror
should a plain or hellicopor fly near even though you so far off rout signaling
9.Plastic raincoat (large)
improvise into a backpack to carry the rest of the kit in
10.Compress kit with gauze
asuming everyones injourys have been treated and their is no emidiet need for it
11.Two litres of 180 proof vodka
use to serilize wounds
12.A pair of sunglasses per person
if fourced to travel in the day help stop sand blindness
13. 0.45 Calibre pistol
use to shoot 3 shots if a vheical is seen and it could be in range of sound [ 3 shot as its the international distress sighn]
14.Book entitled 'Edible animals of the desert'
wont be needed foods not a priority but handy if you come across a easy meal
15.Bottle of salt tablets (1000 tablets)
only realy helpfull i belive to replace salt that you have lost if you secure a good amount of drinking water other wise you could cuse yourself to deyhdrat faster

thats what i would say but im no expert.

 

[forestwalker]

1. The parachute is shelter, shelter from the sun
2. The mirror is for signalling for help
3. Coat: it gets cold at night
4. Knife: tool
5. Compass w. magnifier: make fire, navigation if you for some strange reason decide to move
6. Sunglasses (unless we have good hats?)
7. Water. Nice to have, will last for several hours, at most. Presumably comes in containers,
which are potentially more usefull.
8. Compress kit, handy for injuries
12. Flashlight: could I make a spark for a fire with it? Nice shaped s*x toy if I get bored?
12. Handgun: firemaking, not an ideal hunting caliber, suicide when I realize I'm stuck with a
bunch of tossers?
12. Raincoat. Carry water if we find it, cook in. Essential kit if I'm going to be a flasher (with
the signal mirror, not my fault if you have a dirty mind)
12. Vodka: pour it out and use the bottles, or use the vodka in an improvised stove
12. Map. Possibly usefull, probably not
12. Book. Possibly usefull contents, a way to spend my time. What non-edible animals are there?
12. Salt tablets. if I need to cook one of the survivors, he or she might need salt (yea, I know
color me slightly sceptical on the issue of salt supplements)

Some of the later items are a tossup, so I numbered them as ties (i.e. the mean of 9..15), non-math/-statistics people may be initially confused. Some of the earlier items should also be ties (e.g. mirror vs coat). Some comments only partially serious...

The ordering of course assumes my level of knowledge about desert survival, and that I have 11 "normals" with me. If I'm with a bunch of desert survial experts (Tuareg cultural exchange group, AusSAS, whatever) I'll just hang back and ask if I can tag along if they decide to walk out (only 3 days or so for the nearest habitation?).

Bascially the plan is to build a shelter with the parchute, start a fire, keep watch for aircraft, perhaps look around for water (at dawn, before it gets hot, unless there is a full moon when it *may* be possible to explore at night). If there is a much better location nearby we *might* transfer camp there, making a BFArrow at the crash site pointing to the new camp. natually we'll make fixed signals near any camp (trenches, vegetation arranged in lines, etc, with the appropriate distress signals)

 

[Bigfoot]

I think the main decision is whether to move or stay.

If you are well off the flight path any rescue team is going to spend longer trying to find you. However it's only 65 miles, so an air search would probably sweep your grid within a couple of days so there is an incentive to make shelter, conserve water and await rescue. Any decision to move would mean 3 to 4 days travelling through the night when it is colder (possibly very cold) and lay up during the day. Wiith 12 people, there will be different levels of fitness and stamina, so you can only go at the pace of the slower members of the group and that puts big pressure on your water supplies, even with rationing. Even if you made it to the mining camp, is there any guarantee that is is active and people will be there?

My inclination would be to make shelter and await rescue, conserving energy albeit ensuring you have made sufficient signals to be spotted from the air.

 

[Bootstrap Bob]

Interesting responses so far, I'm not going to say what is right or wrong because I don't think there is a perfect answer but there are a few items which should really be in the top 5.
I will keep track of the responses to this over the next few days and create a list with the combined general consensus. I will then post the "Expert" results and give their reasoning.

 

[resnikov]

In to minds as to whether to stay with the crash or not so my order is set on the premises that you are going to try to make it to the mining camp:

1. One litre of water per person - In the dessert water is vital
2. Parachute (red & white) – Shelter from the sun
3. Magnetic compass (with magnifying glass) – Navigation
4. Plastic raincoat (large) – Cut up and mark direction of travel
5. Cosmetic mirror - signal
6. Bottle of salt tablets (1000 tablets) – To stop dehydration but not sure as there isnt that much water?
7. Compress kit with gauze – First aid, you never know.
8. Pocket knife
9. One top coat per person – warmth at night
10. A pair of sunglasses per person – No ones like to be blinded by the sun
11. Sectional air map of the area – Navigation, but as its flat and you don’t know exactly where you are it might not be much use.
12. Flashlight (4 cells) – light at night for signaling
13. 0.45 Calibre pistol – If it has bullets, signal/ light fire
14. Two litres of 180 proof vodka – fire starter maybe ?
15. Book entitled 'Edible animals of the desert'

On the assumption of average walking speed of 3 miles per hour the flight plan is 21 hours away and the mining camp is 23 hours away.
First set up the parachute as shelter using the airframe. This will keep the sun off.
Take a bearing on the mining camp ad note the direction. Cut up the plastic rain coat and then use that to make the direction you will travel, this should be made to visible from the air. Don’t put this out until you set off.
Wait until early evening, then place rain coat out. Take the parachute down and take it with you for shelter the next day. Leave a note either on the money or take a page out of the book and write down list of survivors and condition of them , what you are planning to do and what time you set off. This could be placed in one of the vodka bottle to stop it being blown away from the crash site. Then start walking to the mining site taking barings ever so often to make sure you are on course.. Early the next morning find a location to pitch the parachute to give shelter . Mark the direction you have come from and the direction to the mining camp. Wait until early evening and set off again.
Extra water could be taken from the cacti if you know its ok to use.

 

[No Idea]

Hmmm...

Never been in this situ.
Nothings been said about it getting freezing at night, so Im assuming its drops to warm rather than life threatening
I remember Captain Mears saying Shelter - Water - Food - Stay with your vehicle....
So...
1 Parachute (red & white)- shelter and a big marker to position if staying put and also rescue marker if moving
2 Glasses to protect eyes - survival much more difficult blind
3 salt tabs
4 Plastic raincoat - supplies more water
5 One Litre of water
6 knife can get water from cacti and possibly food.

If I decide we need to walk out....
7 Compass
8 Map
9 coat - if I cant dig scrapes for daytime it would move up the order
10 flashlight
11 Mirror - if I need it for firelighting - I would move it up the order, although now mention was made of possible combustibles.
12 vodka - if I can get enough water that it becomes a viable energy source - else fire.
13 Edible animals of the desert - only if it says how to hunt them and which ones I need to avoid and how - otherwise as fire starting.
14 compress kit + gauze only if someone gets injured
15 and gun which doesnt say anything about ammo

5 water
10 Flashlight (4 cells)
15 0.45 Calibre pistol
2 A pair of sunglasses per person
12Two litres of 180 proof vodka
8 Sectional air map of the area
7 Magnetic compass (with magnifying glass)
14 Compress kit with gauze
4 Plastic raincoat (large)
6 Pocket knife
13 Book entitled 'Edible animals of the desert'
3 Bottle of salt tablets (1000 tablets)
9 One top coat per person
11 Cosmetic mirror

Ok.

When do we hear what we should have done?

 

[FerlasDave]

Im going to deal with this how I would deal with any potential SS. By using PLWF or Protection, Location, Water and food. The 4 main priorities in ANY potential SS.

1. Parachute - would keep off the heat double layered, and being brightly coloured would also help for rescue.
2. Flashlight \
3. Vodka - Would all be combined to make fire and a signal triangle ready to be lit.
4. Gauze /
5. Compass - location and direction, if you know which direction rescue will most likely come from then you have best chance of being spotted.
6. Map - useful for location and looking for water/food/fuel, also can help get maximum visibility
7. Water - speaks for its self
8. Mirror - for signaling
9. Raincoat - use for water collection.
10. Book - Not all that useful unless you have no choice but to find meat.
11. Salt tablets - Take one pp and use some as bait for trapping.
12. .45 pistol - Could warn off potential predators, help signal, or be used for hunting.
13. Sunglasses - Good for when working out in the sun
14. Pocket knife - Useful for various bits
15. Top coat - If it gets really cold.

I think looking deeply into these kind of tasks they make no sense. There would be so many more questions like where were we going to/from, what was the reason for the journey and what was everyone else doing on the plane. I think the whole most important kit idea is rather silly, as most important can suggest either most used, or most useful. which means any one person can look at this from different angles. In reality I would just remember PLWF and use whatever equipment I needed when I needed it. However I can understand that this doesnt really have much to do with real survival as you are trying to persuade people to use your ideas.

 

[Shewie]

I'd probably stop at the crash site and wait to be rescued.

I'd rig up a hammock and tarp from the chute, crack open the vodka and ciggies and relax.

 

[No Idea]

Shewie

Perfect!

Why didnt I think of that!

 

[v-ness]

That is a very interesting thread. The problem with 12 people is that everyone will have their own ideas of what item to use for a certain purpose. Also, it greatly depends if there is anyone with some form of survival training or bushcraft/ local knowledge. I guess the list should be split into 3 sections- a) immediate survival, b) awaiting/ enabling rescue, c) survival past the first few hours. Although several items would overlap sections or have multiple uses. My list would be as follows

1. Parachute, shelter from the sun and a huge come and find me sign , cords to make sunhats with hankerchiefs
2.Water, for immediate survival.
3.Pocket knife, to cut down cactii for firewood at night, deserts get cold and need signal at night
4.Magnifying glass, to make fire
5.Raincoat, to rig-up a form of water/dew collector
6.Vodka, alcohol evaporates in heat and leaves a cool feeling. so could be rubbed on skin and bottles then used to collect water off raincoat. or to douse the gauze for a fire starter kit
7.Flashlite, use the batteries and pocketknife to strike a spark?
8.Gauze to start fire
9.book pages for fire-making, and the notes too
10. Coat to lie on during the day and under at night
11.Sunglasses
12.map- to find potential water source and to best position camp for maximum shelter and maximum rescue potential
13. mirror for signalling
14. Salt- is probably the most difficult one. Overheated bodies loose huge amounts of salt in sweat, which can lead to confusion, heart problems and death. 65 miles of course is not too far off course making an early rescue possible, so it would probably be wise to take salt tablets- which would make salt more important on the list. However without knowing the options of getting more water supplies, salt could just as easily kill an unexperienced group if they cant get enough replacement fluids in the body. I assume they get rescued quick and havent got any skills anyways- so i'll put salt at the bottom of the list.
15. pistol to attract attention or defend camp against wild animals if necessary.

Will be interested to see the experts list

Cheers Ness

 

[rik_uk3]

LOL, the same 'test' is used in Nurse training often as a part of 'working in a team' test. Its been used on and off for a few years now.

 

[DaveBromley]

always stay with the wreckage and the mirror always comes first for signalling (i've done this before lol)

Dave

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

wouldn't leave the wreckage as it's a good marker, the terrain sounds pretty flat and featureless as far as the eye can see so moving off probably wouldn't be high on my list. the distance off course doesn't sound extreme and possibly falls inside a search pattern. so would stay put.
rig the parachute up as some kind of shelter, but to what would be difficult if the wreckage has had it as cacti don't grow in forests. possibly make some kind dry stone wall type structure, or up against a slope and rig up a sloped lean to type thing but not sure you'd get 12 under it so you would need to find the most immediate natural hollow,cave or sharp slope.

probably set up some kind of first aid kit with the compress, vodka and salt tablets, and issue them when required.
the fags probably don't indicate a heavy smoker as only one packet is on board. so try not to start again and pass them among the smokers.

the pistol is a rubbish calibre for hunting and only useful for shooting a human being so would consider binning it or using them for audible signalling.
the mirror is ideal for signalling and out of all the kit is the best chance of long range contact with rescuers. the compass is ideal for firelighting as its magnified.

however, you could ignore everything sane and reasonable, shoot everyone in the group apart from the best navigator, and take them at gunpoint with the map and compass, parachute and the remaining water and make a dash for the nearest civilization.

One litre of water per person =2
Flashlight (4 cells) = 11
0.45 Calibre pistol = 12
A pair of sunglasses per person = 10
Two litres of 180 proof vodka = 9
Sectional air map of the area =13
Magnetic compass (with magnifying glass) = 4
Compress kit with gauze = 8
Plastic raincoat (large) = 15
Pocket knife = 7
Parachute (red & white) =1
Book entitled 'Edible animals of the desert' = 14
Bottle of salt tablets (1000 tablets) = 6
One top coat per person =5
Cosmetic mirror = 3

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

also, were we kidnapped or really lost cos we don't have local currency? use the cash to pay for a lift if you hit a road if you take the pistol option, or use it to buy everyone an ice cream if the oppurtunity should arrise! the book can be used as firelighting, and the plastic coat can be burned if a plane should come by, dig a small pit, and line it with the coat and mix up some vodka and sand mud stuff and light it inside the coat, don't know if that would work tho, or you could drape the coat over a cactus and light it, for a signal fire. the heat tho probably makes the vodka a 'use it now!' tactic due to evaperation. the torch is your night time signalling device, but shouldn't just be wasted.

 

[Glen]

Still debating with myself about ordering.
A few, not immeditaly obvious things, do spring to mind though.

Though if the vodka bottles have nice metal tops, then a top can be made into a small whistle, the sound of which will carry far into a desert night and far more moisture efficient than shouting.

Staying with the vehicle is the best advice but with a group of people you can afford to make a chain outward which each group staying insight of the previous, about 3-4 miles in totaly flat terrain due to curvature of the earth. That's potentially over a 40 mile chain with a smokey fire at either end.

The cover, spine, pages of the book can be fashioned into cross bracing to make the struts of a red kite with 3 tails, flown using unraveled paracord from the chute, given another method of signaling location, depending on size probably only good for 10 miles to the naked eye but little energy expended doing it.

Hopefully everyone's hanky is kingsized and knotting the corners gives quick and easy head covering.
This seems to be a particulary British concept but as a sense of humour is also a surviavl asset it's use can be seen here demostrated by emminent survivalist Steve Jones ( second from left )
http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=245249
In which Mr Jones also demonstrates how to deal with a blocked nose without removing the hanky from his head.
It should also be noted how his colleague, a Mr Sid Vicious, is not wearing his protective headgear and unlike his other companions can be clearly seen to be suffering the delusion of having a cooling drink avaibale to him. Unfortunately Mr Vicious died shortly after this phioto was taken

 

[naefearjustbeer]

I'd probably stop at the crash site and wait to be rescued.

I'd rig up a hammock and tarp from the chute, crack open the vodka and ciggies and relax.

Sounds like a plan, I dont smoke but I would help with the vodka! The gun would be handy to fend off any marauding zombies.

 

[Bootstrap Bob]

So the answer?

Well looking through your posts and combining them we come up with the following list:

Parachute (red & white)
One litre of water per person
Magnetic compass (with magnifying glass)
Pocket knife
Cosmetic mirror
Plastic raincoat (large)
One top coat per person
Flashlight (4 cells)
Compress kit with gauze
A pair of sunglasses per person
Two litres of 180 proof vodka
Sectional air map of the area
Bottle of salt tablets (1000 tablets)
Book entitled 'Edible animals of the desert'
0.45 Calibre pistol


Well this is not the same as the 'expert' answer which is as follows:

First thing is to decide whether you stay or walk to safety. Well as most people agree staying put is the best course of action. You are more visible from the air if you stay with your vehicle plus one litre of water per person is nowhere near enough to keep you alive in the desert for long if you decide to walk.

The experts' list of items in order:

Cosmetic mirror - Used for signaling your position and can be seen for up 60miles in the desert.
One top coat per person - To protect you from the sunlight, stop loss of perspiration from bare skin and keep you warm at night
One litre of water per person - no explanation required
Flashlight (4 cells) - Highly visible at night in the desert plus the mirror can also be used during the day for signalling.
Parachute (red & white) - When rigged as a shelter this not only keeps the sun off you it acts as a big marker to help with location. If doubled up as a shelter even more sunlight is blocked out.
Pocket knife - For general tasks including cutting open the barrel cactus for water.
Plastic raincoat (large) - Can be used as a solar collector for additional water collection.
0.45 Calibre pistol - After many days without water it becomes difficult to shout for help so a pistol gives an audible signal to anyone searching. Dehydration can make some people's minds to wander and the use of a pistol may appear to be a quick way out of the situation for them.
A pair of sunglasses per person - To protect eyes
Compress kit with gauze - Limited use as nobody was injured.
Magnetic compass (with magnifying glass) - Limited use if you are staying put but the reflective parts can be used to signal or the magnefying glass to help light a fire.
Sectional air map of the area - Limited use other than fuel for fire.
Book entitled 'Edible animals of the desert' - Limited use and probably an inefficient use of energy if you tried.
Two litres of 180 proof vodka - Very dehydrating so of limited use.
Bottle of salt tablets (1000 tablets) - Since you have limited water these would generate a high saline solution in your body meaning your body craves even more water to balance it out again.


Personally for the situation that was given I would have thought the parachute would have been the number one priority to get everyone out of the sun and comfortable before thinking about signalling for help. After all nobody would know they were missing for several hours so there would be nobody looking.
I don't know who the experts were and no doubt there will be some disagreement but this is a very subjective discussion. The purpose of the exercise was not to come up with the perfect list but a measure of how well you were able to influence your party into coming up with a list that was acceptable by all. Interesting list though.

 

[forestwalker]

As to he paracute as more important than the water; when Lofty Weisman ws taltking to the Swedish Survival Guild about a decade and a half ago he posed the question; in the desert, a full canteen or an army poncho, which would increase your survival time the most? The answer was that the water would give you a few hours more at most, while the poncho (rigged as a shelter) would give you much more time, days more. With that as an authorative expert backing me up, and pretty much everyone else here as well, I think the experts behind the "official list" was talking though their bottom.

Of course, the point of the exercise had nothing to do with desert survival, and all with your group dynamics. I've done "who to take into an A-bomb shelter" and "who to take in as a tennant in your small apartment building". They all have the same actual purpose.

 

[dwardo]

Use the 45 to shoot everyone else, relax with all the water and vodka. Simples...