Advice please on basic set up

[Moodyforager]

Hi all
With christmas and Bday coming was think of getting set up for wild camping. I am planning a few trips next summer and thought of useing a hamock and tarp or just tarp and self infatiing mat and sleeping bag and sleeping on the floor if there are no trees My only concerns are getting wet, Im sure alot of this is down to a well placed tarp but I was wondering if on really damp days or when there is alot of mist will I still get wet from condensation or just the moisture in the air. Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

Also any tips for other bare essentials that are needed for starting of as I am new to this would be great, Like cooking equipment like what stove and how safe it is to carry the fuel.
I have looked at back packs and wonder wether the ones in tesco are ok they do one in there value range that is 65lt and cost £18. I dont intend to buy every thing really cheap but I thought this might be ok for starting of,
Thanks
Andy

 

[Silverhill]

Hey Andy! I reckon you've come to the right place to ask for advice! I'll give you a little I've learned, but I'm sure someone will be along soon enough to share even more knowledge!

For a tarp and hammock combo; you can't really go wrong with a DD Tarp (3x3 is a good start) and either a Frontline or Travel hammock. The advantage of the Travel hammock is that it has a waterproof underside which means it can be used as a bivi. I own a Frontline (can be used as a bivi too, but the underside is not waterproof), and I've never looked back With regards to your queries on damp and condensated days; yes, you do get condensation on your sleeping bag etc, especially on days where freezing fog or mist is prevalent, but just keep the bag loosely furled up with the internal parts out of contact with the damp air until you intend to use it.

For cooking, I use a Zebra billy with a hobo stove and Tatonka spirit burner for versatility. Hobo stoves seem to be a bit of a way of life for many on the forum, with threads aplenty for ideas on construction etc. The advantages of the hobo is that you can use whatever natural fuel is available at hand, or switch to the spirit burner if needs be. Carrying methylated spirit for the spirit burner is safe and easy, just remember to do the lid up tight before travelling, or the rest of your gear will stink of meths!

The only piece of advice I can give about rucksacks is shop around, and get something comfy and versatile. Or you'll end up buying something to replace it before long.

I hope this helps!

 

[JonathanD]

For a mega cheap and excellent cooking system including sove and pots, you can't beat this...

http://www.ronniesunshines.com/swedish-trangia-stove-mess-billy-camp-cook-p-988.html

You can get them cheaper if you look about.

 

[shaggystu]

i was looking at the cheap rucksacks in tesco a little while ago, i was surprised by how good they looked, absolutely nothing wrong with them as a "starter" rucksack IMHO.

for sleeping kit, i think that ground dwelling is a bit easier than hammocking to start off with, i'd recommend getting a bivi bag, something like a british army gore-tex bag shouldn't set you back a great deal, look on the bay or on here, there's always folk selling them in the "members classified" section on here.

for cooking kit, make yourself a hobo stove and maybe a meths burner, something like a whitebox stove or similar, do a search on here for "hobo-stove" and "whitebox stove" and i'm sure you'll find all the info you need to make your own.

hope that helps a bit.

good luck with your bushcraft adventure, you'll enjoy it i'm sure

stuart

 

[Yorkshire]

http://www.surplusandadventure.com/shop/bargains/bargains/brand-new-outbound-explorer85-547302.html

great rucksack for the brass, out of stock at the mo but keep lucking

 

[resnikov]

I would also test your setup some where safe i.e. your garden first. That way if you got it pitched wrong, too cold etc etc, its not too bad. Better then getting very wet, cold and hungry on desolate hill.

 

[Shewie]

You'll probably get condensation on the underside of your tarp but that should be about it. The warm air escaping from your sleeping bag and hammock will condense against the cold skin of the tarp. As long as you don't have any saggy bits it should stay there and not drip down.

Like the others have said, you can't go far wrong with DD for a first setup

 

[Mesquite]

You're not that far from me Andy so if you'd like some hands on demos with pitching a tarp I'd be happy to help out

 

[Moodyforager]

Wow what a response great replys from everyone, quick question as I'm completly new to this I dont really know allot, but had a look at bivvy bags and were nt sure wether these are just like a water proof sleeping bag or do you need to wear a sleeping bag on the inside. Also when sleeping in bivvy bags do you guys use a self inflating mat underneath.
Mesquite Might have to take you up on that offer Ill let you know if I get stuck.
Thanks
Andy

 

[Teepee]

A bivi bag is basically a waterproof bag for you, sleeping bag and mat + kit to lie in to keep the rain and wet ground from getting in.
It can be a simple bag design or a bit more complicated with hoops and bug nets.

 

[JonathanD]

Wow what a response great replys from everyone, quick question as I'm completly new to this I dont really know allot, but had a look at bivvy bags and were nt sure wether these are just like a water proof sleeping bag or do you need to wear a sleeping bag on the inside. Also when sleeping in bivvy bags do you guys use a self inflating mat underneath.
Mesquite Might have to take you up on that offer Ill let you know if I get stuck.
Thanks
Andy

You will need ground insulation if you use a bivvy with or without a sleeping bag as the ground just drains the warmth away from your body, but even in hot Summers I would take a light sleeping bag anyway as nights get cold outdoors due to breeze.

 

[Melonfish]

for my own ground dweller setup i run the following items.
British army gore-tex bivvi (bought from here but endicotts can sort you out too)
outwell 2100 3 season sleeping bag
Inflatable sleeping mat (just switched to a full length one.)
Fleece sleeping bag liner.
DD 3x3 tarp.

with this setup i can run through summer or winter, setup your tarp either accross some tree's or even as a half pyramid or a single A frame setup, i've done mine with just my walking staff before now.
throw under your bivi and insert your kip mat, inflate it and then insert your bag/liner on top. liner for summer, sleeper for spring autumn bag+liner for winter.
lovely and warm and nice and dry to boot

like others i've ran with the Trangia military set, i've tried the civilian set and that is also good but £40 more expensive. i'm just switching to a hobo stove set now.
Pete

 

[jamesdevine]

When starting of it's best to keep things simple and cheap. So the Tesco pack sounds good all do for a weekend 65ltrs might be a bit big. I bought a Outbound 55ltr pack last year here for 50euro's and it's really comfortable and bombproof and more the big enough. The Swedish army mess kit is a great buy again simple to use, cheap and bombproof an alternative i use when I know fires won't be a problem is my TK Maxx biscuit tin billy it cost €5 about 4 years ago and is perfect. The key do is the sleeping bag. Here I would do my research and spend money on the best I could afford. I struggled for years with cheap synthetic bags and two years ago splashed out on good 3 season down bag and I have never looked back.

As I said keep your outfit simple to start with.

James

 

[Moodyforager]

thanks again guys.
Yorkshire I'm defently going to get one of the swedish army mess kit . And I think I will go with a tescos back pack but not the value one, they do a 65lt one for £25 which looks a bit more comfy also if there extra space I could fit my fly fishing gear in. Good tips on how to set things up and descriptions for how to use bivvi. Definetly gonna buy an army gortex one when funds alow seen them on ebay for £30. Also gonna get a DD tarp.
James gotta love TK Maxx got one five minute walk from me brought my boys some head torches from there for £3 also got my karrimor head torch from there 3 years ago for £5 still really good.
My sleeping bag is a eurohike 200 think it is rated down to -10 are these good enough?
Cheers
Andy

 

[jamesdevine]

Hi Andy,
TK Maxx a wonderful place for routing out good gear particularly clothing. I have a few bits from them that are worn on every trip and cost me half the price I would have paid in outdoor store.
As per you sleeping bag I agree with one of the earlier posters when they said test in your back garden or somewhere you can be home in flash if it fails. If the comfort rating is -10c it should be OK in the garden on a clear winter evening. Off course you would also be using a good insulated mat and Bivvy bag and wearing all your cloths. If you remain comfortable even warm for several hours (not freezing) then it should meet your needs during the summer months. Also as mentioned by Melonfish a Fleece bag liner is a great and cheap addition to your bag and it can on warming evenings be used on it's own with a bivvy bag.

 

[Paul_B]

That -10 could be the extreme rating. That means -10C for a healthy person who sleeps warm, is wearing all his clothes (and yes I do mean HIS because men tend to sleep warmer than women), has a good mat underneath and has eaten before turning in. It could aslo bethe temperature that will not allow you to sleep but will just survive the night. Not being pessimistic just pointing out that there are comfort and extreme temps measured under the EU test and some makers use the extreme which is misleading as you would never want to sleep in a bag at or near the extreme rating. It is not pleasant (said from a guy who slept inside a building where it got to -7C inside in a 20 year old square foot summer (0.5 season at best) bag that had virtually no loft left in the cheap synthetic insulation. If it wasn't for the copious amounts of aclohol I wouldn't have slept at all.

Eurohike are not a bad make but they are not top of the range so that -10C could be very optimistic. If there is room around you in the bag you could always wear some clothes but do make sure there is space to still allow the insulation to loft fully (more of a problem with down of course).

IF money is tight (like it is for a lot of us) then go with the likes of Tescos. Although I would definitely shop around a bit as it is always possible that an extra £10 or so could get you a better sack. There are always deals to be found. I don't mean to direct anyone away from this forum but in buying gear for ground dwelling I would always keep an eye on Outdoorsmagic bargains thread. Sorry BCUK people but it is probably the best bargains thread on any forum I've seen due to the number of people who use it perhaps. BCUK could do with one too perhaps.

One thing I do think and that is of you are sure you will be keen on this activity and will keep it up then perhaps saving up to get better gear might be a better economy in the long term. Cheap gear is great for starting but on the whole it is heavier and less durable. There are exceptions of course. If you can squeeze out your money to get a few items from a better make then you might enjoy it more. The main things are rucksck, sleeping bag and the shelter (tent, tarp/bivvy, tarp/hammock). Those IMHO are the three items that spending a bit more can provide the mnost advantage.

Above all shop around. Do research and above all make your own mind up (preferably having handled the items in question). Do not rely on us for anything but guidance as people always have differing views.

www.backpackinglight.co.uk
ultralightoutdoorgear.com

These are two very good companies to buy from IME and do take a look at them as they stock some very good gear at reasonable prices for what you are getting. Perhaps out of your price range at the moment but take a look anyway.

 

[Paul_B]

www.alpkit.co.uk
Are a company that sells own designed stuff direct with free delivery (or at least within the price stated). They do the Hunka bivvy bag whichis a waterproof sleeping bag cover style of bivvy which is perfect for under tarp use. Light and cheap. Their sefl inflating mats are more expensive than closed cell foam ones but offer a much superior nights sleep. Which is very important IMHO. They sell TI pegs too which are good and cheap.

3m square DD tarp is more than good neough in the cave type pitch for even strong winds on the open fells. I've used my 2.5m tarp in strong winds on Coniston fells before. Ear plugs are always adviseable though.

Can I also recommend looking at the BPL-UK site I mentioned above? Their Honey stove is good as is the Whitebox meths stove. Also their Evernew Ti pots are the best IMHO and not too expensive for what you get. It all goes down to my earlier advice about trying to save up for better gear from the beginning if at all possible. BPL-UK will provide good kit for ground dwelling at cheap prices for what you are getting. Plus a free pack of skittles with every purchase.

 

[Paul_B]

BTW if you win the lottery I can also point you in the direction of the best ground dwelling kit (IMHO only). I pretty much have that list ready just in case its me!

 

[Chrisj]

From when I worked in an outdoor shop the number on the sleeping bag often gives an indication of the season rating. So 200 or 250 was usually reckoned by the manufacturers to be a 2 season bag. 300 or 350, 3 season, 400 or 450, 4 season. This is just based on the manufacturers that we stocked of course.
Based on that I would say that your bag could be a 2 season bag which would make the -10 the extreme rating and generous at that. Personally I would always get a sleeping bag plenty warm enough for the worst conditions that I am likely to regularly use it in. There is nothing worse than lying awake shivering all night. You end up feeling cr**p all the next day as well and it really spoils the trip. You can always unzip it and use it like a duvet if it is a hot night. I sleep cold so I like a 4 or 4/5 season bag for early spring, late autumn and winter and use a 3/4 season for the rest of the year. If I only had the one bag for the whole year I would go for a 4 season but as I say I sleep cold so you might get away with lighter.
If you are buying on a budget then budget kit whilst it will often do the job fine it is more bulky than it's uber expensive alternative. Based on that I wouldn't worry about the 65 litre rucksac being too big. You may need the space initially until you upgrade to smaller lighter kit in a few years time.
Hope that helps.

 

[Moodyforager]

www.alpkit.co.uk

3m square DD tarp is more than good neough in the cave type pitch for even strong winds on the open fells. I've used my 2.5m tarp in strong winds on Coniston fells before. Ear plugs are always adviseable though.

Just wondering what a cave set up looks like been looking for picture but cant find one.

Thanks for the links .