bushcraft instructor

[FGYT]

How did kids learn bushcraft in the past?

From Dad, an older brother or another kid who knew a thing or two. I think it ruins the spirit if one expects first aid, and certified bushcraft skills, insurance etc. just to show skills to someone

The scouts suggestion is a good one. Offer your skills for free to groups and clubs and learn that way avoiding the commercialism. Don't spoil the fun by making it a job. If you go commercial you will be held to a far higher standard in terms of skills and libility

these guys want to make this there job ie get moenty from it etc

Both fortunatly and unfortunatly in UK you have a Massive H&S, legal , mine field to navigate before you ever take money from someone for a service etc

on top of UK legislation a lot of which you have to interprate cos if you ask HSE they just say "cant exactly say but you will find out in a court of Law if it happens " or " yes i know this form we say you have to fill out is of no use to actuasl saftey but it will be usefull in a court if you have a problem"

then you will have the extra Stuff an insurance company will impose on you over an above HSE requirements/suggestions

Bushcraft has no governing body "yet" but its coming in the next few years so your on your own if you run the school your it

to harp to Diving which has a massive set up and a lot of saftey (10-20 people die every year on average in UK while diving and on wrecks that we teach on etc so not the hardcore deep guys a lot more get decompression sickness etc from full recovery to perminatly disabled etc)
my organization PADI has a strutured ranking for divers and instructors with rules etc these are world wide if you want to teach for PADI. PADI says i can take 8 students in the water on my own to teach of swanage pier who will only have learnt yesterday in the pool that they wont drown in the water . HSE says i need a HSE pro diving medical (yearly assment ) and a rescue qualifyed Diver with their own HSE medical and person on the surface as top cover ticking poel in and out plus Full H&S risk assesments of the conditions that day and HSE saftey breifing on top of the PADI dive briefing.
if i teach a mate for free then HSE can Jump

any bushcrafters here Know what RIDDOR is and when its needed to be filled out well if Lawrence had sustained his injury during a course then on top of the First aid accident book a Riddor form would have to be Submitted failiure to do so in the time frame is an offence (imediatly for serious injury or death) submitting the form may just get it filed but seriuos stuff will get a full HSE investigation

ATB

Duncan

 

[Whittler Kev]

I have been trying to read the whole of this thread with an open mind but as a fully qualified Secondary Teacher, there are a few things others have mentioned that I worry about:

1. Your usernames - Hardly instil confidence - Siberian FURY and DearDeath
2. Your Video's - I remember one where you were standing on a knife handle to see if it would break- very dangerous. And another where you put a note saying how messing about means a
friend may never regain the full use of his hand. Another is gutting a rabbit - seems most are posted for their shock value.
3. Your unqualified to teach
4. Do you have enhanced CRB checks?
5. Do either of you have a criminal record?
6. You both seem very young to be taken seriously by others
7. You seem like typical teenagers that type how you speak - IMHO it doesn’t come across very professionally
8. You don't seem to worry about spell checking your posts, never mind grammar checking. Please use the
spell checker (the ABC with a tick) that is above every comment box. It is better to put your messages into
MsWord and then check, copy and paste them into the text box
9. I hope you’re not trying to make some quick money out of it. Several instructors I know are either financially dependant (Forces pensions, disability pensions etc) or are living hand to mouth
doing it


However to be more constructive, maybe you should just teach the basics:

1. Knife sharpening and safe handling
2. Fire by different methods
3. Water
4. Shelter
5. Game capture, disposable, prep and cooking
6. Camp hygiene

There is a reason that all the others do basic courses and follow on to longer, higher-level courses. Maybe it’s what people want to know

Please do not take this as personal criticism, it’s just my opinion

 

[Doc]

It's good to see young folk with a bit of enterprise and 'can do' attitude, so well done for that. I'd make a few observations.

-the market for bushcraft instruction looks to me pretty saturated. New schools seem to be springing up everywhere. Even 'bushcraft parties' for kids are available everywhere.

-if you want to teach people who are already enthusiasts, you need to have a solid reputation for having knowledge and experience. For example, if I wanted to be instructed in bushcraft, photography, reptiles or riflecraft I would happily go to Patrick, Wayland, Jonathan or Klenchblaize respectively. It is clear from their posts that they know their stuff - not because they make any claims for themselves, they don't and don't need to. It's simply obvious that they know about these things.

-as well as first aid, risk management, insurance, disclosure checks etc you also need to register as self employed, do self assessment tax return, pay class 2 and 4 national insurance and keep accounts. There's a lot of paperwork.

-Young people often do relate best to young 18-25 year old adults and you often find outdoor instructors are in this age group. But you do need experience, and ideally proof of that experience.

 

[Tadpole]

This is just my opinion, but I feel that the best/easiest way to gain experience in this or any field for that matter, is to go on a couple of courses, find a company that you like, both what they have to offer and the way it is run, and hopefully fairly local to you. Then spend a year or two volunteering with them, every weekend and every weekday that they work, you work, be prepared to muck in and muck out, all for no pay and little time to yourself.
Learn their way of doing thing, learn the reason why they do it that way, learn all the boring stuff like paperwork, the hard backbreaking setting up and taking down, the prep, and the stuff that most people never see. When you can set up and enjoy a course for 16 newbies one weekend, and 10 ‘experts’ the next week, handle the disabled and the disenfranchised, with the same enthusiasm, and learn and teach at the same time.
Then after a year or so, pay to go on a few different courses with other companies, volunteer with them for a couple of months, try that for two/three years, then think, I mean really think, if you really want to do it for a living.
Do your apprenticeship in the time honoured way, for little or no pay, then journeyman around the UK honing your skills, before becoming a master in your craft. You’re young enough and single, free from ties that would/will stop you from doing it as you get older, ties like a mortgage or a wife/girlfiend
Start soon and you’ll have it all behind you by the time you are 21. Just don’t expect to make much money from it.
YMMV

 

[Tony]

I think the goal is a great one to give you a focus in your lives, I think that you need to have a plan on how you'll get there and adjust your time lines to accommodate the things you need to have under your belts prior to running your own business. Take what people have said in this thread, make a list of the points made, 'areas for improvement' 'contacts offering help' 'perception of other people' 'areas of strength' etc etc, however you want to break it down that gives you a good view of where you're standing and where you need to get to.

Get experience, this can be from people with higher skill levels, practice etc. Getting enough money together to do courses is a good way of getting knowledge and skills quickly, although they will still have to be mastered through practice and your own experimentation. this may mean that you have to work to get money to do courses to get skill to reach your goal etc, I've no idea of your personal circumstances. Have a list of all the things you need to learn and work out how you're going to do it.
Talk to some of the reputable companies and see if they will take you on as volunteer instructors and if they won't ask them what you need to be acceptable in that role and add the info to your list and plan, then do what you need to do and go back and get a position with them and get some training, teaching and experience under your belts, the great thing about this is you would be doing under their insurance, covered by their first aid and safety plans etc

When you've got enough of your list sorted, when you've addressed the main areas that you identified as needed move to the next stage of your plan on setting up a business. One thing you have a huge advantage in is your youth, you're young enough to spend the time getting your foundations spot on and enjoy doing it, which means that you will come into the industry with an enthusiasm, good knowledge and skill base and experience that will help you stand out.

No one wants to hear that they can't do what they want when they want and it will be up to you guys on how you approach this but the advice would be to approach it conscientiously and with a well considered plan behind you.

good luck with it

 

[Tony]

he he, tadpole got there first

 

[Ray Britton]

A quick question.
Is FGYT correct in his assumption that 'any' bushcrafters here will know about RIDDOR. I do as I have a diploma in H and S, but why on earth would the average outdoor person have any idea about it, let alone carry reporting forms (or an accident at work book) on them while they are camping out for a few days?

Are you all totally conversant with RIDDOR, and COSHH come to that? Do you all carry police authorising letters for the carrying of offensive weapons too?
I only ask, as I imagine that many posters only follow bushcraft as a hobby, and so the first two above do not apply in any way!

Just a thought

 

[WoodenMoose]

1st off, good luck.

I do feel your jumping the gun abit. If you are serious about making a effort at teaching bushcraft then i would take my time over it. If you go ahead now, rush into the entire thing and then realise that you dont have the experience, time, skills or money to continue with it, it could ruin your business and personal reputation for any future employment in the area, either as your own business or an instructor within someone elses.

One lesson i always here being taught throughout bushcraft is that you need to be aware of your surroundings and never rush into anything without fully assessing the risks, and take your time. Ignoring this can end up in rash decisions being taken not only hurting yourself but others around you.

 

[MSkiba]

Hi Guys,

Excluding all above posts, to have a successful business in a crowded market, there is only one thing you need to do.

Be better than all the competition.

Are you better than all the competition? If not plan to get there. If so, go ahead and you will succeed.

 

[FGYT]

A quick question.
Is FGYT correct in his assumption that 'any' bushcrafters here will know about RIDDOR. I do as I have a diploma in H and S, but why on earth would the average outdoor person have any idea about it, let alone carry reporting forms (or an accident at work book) on them while they are camping out for a few days?

Are you all totally conversant with RIDDOR, and COSHH come to that? Do you all carry police authorising letters for the carrying of offensive weapons too?
I only ask, as I imagine that many posters only follow bushcraft as a hobby, and so the first two above do not apply in any way!

Just a thought

you are correct Bushcrafters dont need to know RIDDOR or COSHH etc but these guys want to step thro the looking glass where they will have to know it I would expect Instructors to know about HSE stuff but probably only those who Run schools to know about RIDDOR its not something that ive seen mentioned at First aid or basic HSE level untill you get to IOSH managing safley 5 day HSE course even then a lot of busnesses dont know about RIDDOR requirements

COSHH is probably little use in Bushcraft

Police letters arnt required as there the exemptions are already written into law. plus you would never get a copper to write such a letter any way

 

[Stamp]

I recently took my son on the family bushcraft course with Andy from "Natures Carft", you will not only need good teaching skills but you will need to be very understanding and be able to capture and inspire the children (and Adults). Dont spend too long at any one task as the children will lose interest. Regular breaks with play time for the kids, let the run wild for a while!

But the main advice I would give you, again from personel experience, is to get very well trained in first aid! And a big, well stocked first aid kit.....

 

[Bushwhacker]

My advice would be to use you're funding and go travelling, meet people from other countries, do a bit a jobbing here and there.
Disappear for a year, you won't regret it. I never regretted it even though it was hard at times, you'll love it and learn along the way.

 

[Ray Britton]

Hi FGYT.

That answer was not of course in relation to the question I asked, Re: any bushcrafter lol

COSHH is also relevent for many subjects, as the instructor/students may be using differing chemicals, or liquid fuels. Hazchem can also be an issue when working with pyro, or black powders.

I take your point that NO COPPER would write an exception letter for carriage of knives.........So will go and tear up THE ONE I HAVE from my local police force.....Just on your say so lol!

 

[Wayland]

First of all, the very best of luck with your new venture.
There is some sound advice above, but may I add......
1. Start working now to build your reputation.
2. Know any subject you intend to teach inside out.
3. Practice what you preach, don't read about how to do something in a book and then think you can teach it.
4. Don't expect too much from people. Challenge your students, but don't over stretch them
5. Don't waffle or bulls**t people. You'll be found out and bang goes No 1
6. Keep any promises you make
7. Get insurance and keep everything legal. Do a first aid course and get CRB cleared.
8. Go to some other Bushcraft schools as a student and learn what you can about how they opperate.
9. Start to promote and market your school now.
10. Don't expect to make a shed load of money.

RM set up Woodlore when he was a teenager, so don't let the merchants of doom get you down.

All very good advice. I would agree with many who have already said that your videos do you no favours.

These days, everything is connected and your reputation is included in that.

Many people and organisations now check social networking sites before interviewing for new members of staff, so it is unwise to put anything on the web that you would not want an employer, client or customer to see.

Even the names that you post under do not inspire confidence but instead label you as rather dangerous sounding individuals.

As mentioned by CG. In business you need to start building your reputation from the ground up, and I would advise you to re-lay your foundations.

 

[sirex]

thinking about this a bit more today.
Others have pointed out:

- Business is a big bad world of complicated forms and such

- Health and Saftey, first aid and other qualifications etc takes time to get, youll need these to do face to face work.

- You need skills to teach to others

Why not start off by creating and selling bushcraft related products ? It'll get you the business experience without worries about background checks, it'll get you skills needed to teach others, and it'll get you money coming in from learning about bushcrafting topics.

You could do this while gaining time with the scouts or such, and maybe get a reputation for decent products. It'll get you contacts too.

May be a rubbish idea, but its an idea anyhow

 

[lostplanet]

I don't know what yopur circumstances are but if you want to gain some experience for free why not try your local Royal Marine Cadet Unit/Detachment? You will learn everything a Cadet needs to know to progress through the ranks and meet some very knowledgeable and experienced Ex Royal Marines and Serving Forces personnel.

You can join as a Civilian Instructor if you do not want to wear uniform, you will be CRB checked with no costs. There are loads of courses available some ending up with recognised qualifications. You will learn how to teach/instruct a class of teenagers. I was a Trainee Instructor for a year and it was a very rewarding experience and I would continue to do so if I could have.

It will take quite some time to get to a good standard as long as you put plenty of effort in, the results will be well worth the time.

http://units.ms-sc.org/bridgwater/News

http://seacadets.ms-sc.org/volunteers.aspx

to give you some idea of the sort of thing you will learn, get a couple of books from here:

http://www.milpkbk.co.uk/

 

[MSkiba]

In short. You have your goals, where you want to be. Above in the posts are the steps you need to take to get there. From the looks of things you got around 10 years of grafting to do to get there.

I think your post has been answered now.

 

[Ray Britton]

I still have not seen any vids from the pair concerned (maybe someone can post some appropriate links), and know very little of anyone on this forum.
I have seen Waylands site, and found it very professional and inspiring. (the hero worship is about to get worse...look away wayland if easily embarrassed).

I love the pics on waylands site, and that is looking from the perspective of someone who spends a lot of time outdoors. I can almost imagine myself sat around the camp fire with him. His grammar and spelling are top notch, but more importantly, his name is fitting (I don't know why, but it just is IMHO), and the words he uses are emotive and compelling, but still factual.

While it is true that vikings liked to do the odd bit of killing in real life, his site does not reflect that, but does show how he demonstrates techniques, and his honest and down to earth explanation of his equipment lets you get a feel for his methods and the company ethos. Just imagine looking at a shot of him using his 'blow poker' and then think just how naff it would be if you had no idea what is was (he explains its use)!

OMG that turned into a real 'love in' for a moment there (I think there should be money coming my way fro that lol), but it shows me how much difference a well laid out site and a good name can make to a site, and inspire confidence in visitors to the site...Which leads to work and students.

 

[MSkiba]

Never trust a viking!

 

[Tadpole]

Viking is a doing word not a being word, what you mean is never trust a norseman