You'd never get enough rpm's off a car alternator as part of a wind turbine. The UK windspeed just aint upto it....
Post-apocalypse Bushcrafting and Scavenging to rebuild the world
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Perhaps windspeed might not be enough of a constant but a water wheel could be geared up to give you enough to power a 240v generator, never understand why there are not many being used for this today, especially if the reservior is high enough to give a really good pressure and the feed pipe is stepped down in diameter thereby increasing the water jet pressure at the end. This would provide enough power for most small houshold appliances but phones need a powered exchange and a whole network running to work and of course a radio needs a radio station providing the music etc. CB or ham radio could operate and only needs someone else out there with theirs working and you have a net. Hydraulic power is very simple and very strong for many uses and easy to maintain.
Although I don't really read this type of thread as its not really 'my type of thing' it does make you think somewhat. I'm sure that very few of us think how things work or take the time to find out how things work. I guess this has always been the case though, other wise we wouldn't have had specialists doing certain jobs ie wheelwright etc. The trouble with alot of technology is it has currently become too complicated for the lay man to easily understand.
I can usually fix my old vw camper myself but wouldn't know where to plug in a laptop on the new golf not alone understand the software!
Maybe this is why more and more of us are finding satisfaction in creating and working with 'older' crafts ie leather making etc as it easy to understand as well as being tactile satisfying etc.
Dunno if maybe I want to know how some stuff works.... maybe I would be better without it!
Dave
I can usually fix my old vw camper myself but wouldn't know where to plug in a laptop on the new golf not alone understand the software!
Maybe this is why more and more of us are finding satisfaction in creating and working with 'older' crafts ie leather making etc as it easy to understand as well as being tactile satisfying etc.
Dunno if maybe I want to know how some stuff works.... maybe I would be better without it!
Dave
In regards to the high-tech fabrics - do we need them? I remember a program about Viking ships which tested authentic Viking oiled wool coats against the best modern materials and the oiled wool actually outperformed the modern at keeping the guy warm when in rough weather. Surely there'll be some sheperds survive 
L
lee22
Guest
cant remember what the program was called but it had 2 guys (one ex army with a big tash, dick sharman i think, other quite young) who made eco stuff from all sorts. they did a wood powered toyota hilux ,, a hostel in the middle of nowhere powered by a water wheel and wind turbine even an air powered moped, to name but a couple. its gunna bug me all day now lol
lee
lee
I watched a documentary a while ago where an island was being strip mined and the locals took up arms and kicked them off the island, ( I think it was near PNG). they where using banana oil to run all the machinery and engine’s left by the miners and using cars and trucks to generate electricity, the same oil was used for oil lamps and lubrication of just about everything including their guns !
I will never forget a comment there leader said “ when we get our independence I am going to take on shell”
These had created the very world you are talking about. The only difference is occasionally these guys where fighting off the army of the nation that “owned” the island.
The camera men charged thier battery’s up via genny made from a big band attached to the back wheel of a truck attached to a motor from a crane
For the life of me I cant remember what the program was so if anyone else can please let me know because I have been trying to find out for while and I would love to watch it again !
So yes they where living with modern utilities but with a lack of modern resources as most of them had worked for the mining company so had the skills needed.
Nice thread
Why would you want to ?
IMHO there is no such thing as waterproof and breathable its always a trade off. I prefer to stick to stuff that either keeps me dry while not exerting myself or something (like wool) that stays warm when wet. I think in this world you have created we would need to adapt to a more sustainable and sympathetic lifestyle with lower expectations. Just my opinion 
Now THIS is the kind of thing I wanted to see... well, in part anyway.
I'll not have a chance to read properly from my last post to the end until tonight, but a quick glance at the comments about scavenging, refining oil and so on are exactly the kind of things I wanted this thread to bring up...
Wingstoo
I like the story you posted - is that an extract from something?
While I agree completely that the vast majority of people couldn't make anything they needed. That's summarised really well by the comic in the link I posted at the top.
"We are not smart! We buy stuff from smart people!"
While I agree that most people (me included) wouldn't have the first clue how to make a candle... though now I've got that bit of info that it used to come from an animal - I'd at least have a chance of figuring it out using the "let's try this..." fail "ok let's try that..." promising "a small tweak" got it method.
How about if we're not talking post apocalypse, but talking present day. With all the communications we have, could we make things like goretex from scavenged materils or even from natural ones? How about some modern medications frome natural resources?
As for the "would we really want to?" response when faced with recreating things like modern fabrics. Perhaps not, but the thought process that brought me to starting this thread was about just that. How "comfortable" could we make it? How close to modern fabrics could we get if we wanted to?
Even on the natural front - would we be back to the days of itchy-wool or could we make some of the modern wool fabrics like Merino base layers, wool blend stretchy socks and the likes?
How much of what we use today, like synthetic fabrics, waterproof glues, medicine, good sturdy shoes, metal goods, telecommunications, electricity, transportation and so on - could we make/maintain if we chose (or were forced to) do it completely off-grid.
Just for fun like.
I'll not have a chance to read properly from my last post to the end until tonight, but a quick glance at the comments about scavenging, refining oil and so on are exactly the kind of things I wanted this thread to bring up...
Wingstoo
I like the story you posted - is that an extract from something?
While I agree completely that the vast majority of people couldn't make anything they needed. That's summarised really well by the comic in the link I posted at the top.
"We are not smart! We buy stuff from smart people!"
While I agree that most people (me included) wouldn't have the first clue how to make a candle... though now I've got that bit of info that it used to come from an animal - I'd at least have a chance of figuring it out using the "let's try this..." fail "ok let's try that..." promising "a small tweak" got it method.
How about if we're not talking post apocalypse, but talking present day. With all the communications we have, could we make things like goretex from scavenged materils or even from natural ones? How about some modern medications frome natural resources?
As for the "would we really want to?" response when faced with recreating things like modern fabrics. Perhaps not, but the thought process that brought me to starting this thread was about just that. How "comfortable" could we make it? How close to modern fabrics could we get if we wanted to?
Even on the natural front - would we be back to the days of itchy-wool or could we make some of the modern wool fabrics like Merino base layers, wool blend stretchy socks and the likes?
How much of what we use today, like synthetic fabrics, waterproof glues, medicine, good sturdy shoes, metal goods, telecommunications, electricity, transportation and so on - could we make/maintain if we chose (or were forced to) do it completely off-grid.
Just for fun like.
Watch the bit in the middle of this clip, from about 2minutes 30 seconds.
From the 1970's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4Bvwg10BYU&feature=related
I haven't followed this thread all the way through so I hope this is not a repeat of something already covered, but I saw mention of wind generators.
At the moment my boat is plugged into mains shore power, hence this laptop is up and running, but as soon as I leave the mooring I am 95% reliant on wind and sun power to charge my batteries. I have 2, each of 110amp hour rating. These are charged by a wind generator and a 30 watt solar panel, they also charge off the engine like a car but I only use the engine for entering or leaving port ie: very short periods. Just out of interest the batteries give me power for lighting, both the cabin lights and my navigation lights, for my GPS and VHF radio and of course power to start the engine when required.
A combination of solar and wind power is ideal for the UK, it gives flexibility of power supply, an addition of water powered generation via watermill or such would make a most reliable system. During a two year cruise of the Mediterranean I was on shore power so rarely it was insignificant, so a similar set up would at least supply light and communications for a small household under the circumstances of this thread. It would of course power 12 volt tools and charge batteries for other purposes like 12 volt caravan type fridges etc:
At the moment my boat is plugged into mains shore power, hence this laptop is up and running, but as soon as I leave the mooring I am 95% reliant on wind and sun power to charge my batteries. I have 2, each of 110amp hour rating. These are charged by a wind generator and a 30 watt solar panel, they also charge off the engine like a car but I only use the engine for entering or leaving port ie: very short periods. Just out of interest the batteries give me power for lighting, both the cabin lights and my navigation lights, for my GPS and VHF radio and of course power to start the engine when required.
A combination of solar and wind power is ideal for the UK, it gives flexibility of power supply, an addition of water powered generation via watermill or such would make a most reliable system. During a two year cruise of the Mediterranean I was on shore power so rarely it was insignificant, so a similar set up would at least supply light and communications for a small household under the circumstances of this thread. It would of course power 12 volt tools and charge batteries for other purposes like 12 volt caravan type fridges etc:
I think youd have to go back to the most basic, neolithic agricultural system, cos until you can produce a surplus of food, you just wont have the time to think about anything other than being hungry
You could have a neuro surgeon, nuclear physisist, even ray mears in your merry band! great, get em all out working in the fields, cos your pesticides are gone, fuel for your machinery is gone, and the means to conventionally preserve food is gone.
and if you get a summer like last, half your group are probably gonna starve anyway,
so in your spare time (lol) you might wanna build some huge stone circle to pray to the sun gods . . . cos nothing will be as important as the success of those first crops
You could have a neuro surgeon, nuclear physisist, even ray mears in your merry band! great, get em all out working in the fields, cos your pesticides are gone, fuel for your machinery is gone, and the means to conventionally preserve food is gone.
and if you get a summer like last, half your group are probably gonna starve anyway,
so in your spare time (lol) you might wanna build some huge stone circle to pray to the sun gods . . . cos nothing will be as important as the success of those first crops
saltpeter can be filtered from horse manure, using a similair setup to a coffee filter then evaporating the water, sulphur would have to be obtained elsewhere though.
in answer to your next question, no i didn't spend my whole childhood studying pyrotechnics and DIY artillery
in answer to your next question, no i didn't spend my whole childhood studying pyrotechnics and DIY artillery
in answer to your next question, no i didn't spend my whole childhood studying pyrotechnics and DIY artillery
I did!
I am fasinated with how everyting that was done on a farm maybe 200 years ago was all about putting variety on the table.
Meat and bread is fine but you wanted sausage, jam, spicy herbs, butter, cheese...
Look in your food cupboard. If you want a food item you need to be able to make it or you will have to do without and as everyone who has tried knows, one of the worst mindkillers is boring, tasteless, uniform food.
Only through specialisation and bartering (or industrialisation) did we end up getting time for "extras".
hmmmmm, interesting point. i do quite a lot of cooking but if asked even something simple like "how to make pasta" (from scratch obviously) im not sure i'd get it right even if you gave me ten goes at it. same with noodles and i basically live off them
i know roughly how to make cheese and butter but actually doing it? especially without being able to use the internet to reference.
I think most likely id be eating the bark off trees within a week.
i know roughly how to make cheese and butter but actually doing it? especially without being able to use the internet to reference.
I think most likely id be eating the bark off trees within a week.
Actually, pinebark, harvested in spring when it is full of nutrients, was a staple food for the Saami.
They would dry it or roast i and grind it for making bread och break it into flakes and put them in milk as cerial.
One of my coming projects for this spring.
I'd be dead from eating all those tins of sausages in lard
There are radio ham satellites up there, so you could chat with people in other countries and even exchange data via packet radio in theory
There are radio ham satellites up there, so you could chat with people in other countries and even exchange data via packet radio in theory
I did!
I am fasinated with how everyting that was done on a farm maybe 200 years ago was all about putting variety on the table.
Me too
A lot of it is not really bushcraft but we set ourselves new challenges each year - from making vinegar or cheese to growing and processing spices.
We managed to make jars of mustard last year (using home made vinegar and home grown and processed mustard seed). I trying for our own pepper this year!
We try for as much as we can in terms of things like making our own soap and the like as well.
Its an endlessly fascinating subject
Red
Right, thats it!
If I feel the end of civilization is near I´m taking my huntingskills and heading to Red`s place!
:You_Rock_
Here´s one for you:
If you don´t live by the coast, how to get salt?
If I feel the end of civilization is near I´m taking my huntingskills and heading to Red`s place!
:You_Rock_
Here´s one for you:
If you don´t live by the coast, how to get salt?
This should provide a link to building an earthship made from tyres and drinks cans started by the garbage warrior guy. there's a community of them helping each other out.
http://www.earthships.com/
http://www.earthships.com/
I'd be dead from eating all those tins of sausages in lard
There are radio ham satellites up there, so you could chat with people in other countries and even exchange data via packet radio in theory
Would those be satallites that get a lot of computer input to keep them up there Rik? So how long until they went haywire?
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