moving out

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Mike Ameling

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Jan 18, 2007
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Iowa U.S.A.
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It's a hard thing, in your mind, to get past the ... romanticized ... images of living out-n-about. Books like On The Road, or movies like Into The Wild can show you a lot of what it really is like. But the HARSH parts of reality tend to get lost beneath those romanticized images. And until you are actually out in it full time, you just don't have much of a clue how BAD it can get, and how quickly it can all go bad. But that is also why people write about the GOOD parts - to help them get through all the bad parts.

It can be GREAT to not have all the worry about a job/home/bills. But that tends to drown out all those times you have no food and no money and haven't had any for days - and with no do-able prospects to change that in the next few days, much less next couple hours. Waking up to a beautiful sunrise with the dew sparkling across the grass/flowers is remembered. But being thoroughly soaked for 3 or 4 days and nights in a row while moving/sleeping in a foot of mud is something most people try hard to forget - and seldom write about.

So balance out in your mind, between those romantic images and some harsh reality. Will the ... good times ... be enough to get you through the ... bad times. It can be a great experience. But you need the mental toughness to go along with the physical toughness - to be able to survive that experience for any length of time.

And all Choices come with consequences and responsibilities. Many of the consequences have already been mentioned - future housing, jobs, health.

In the end, the choice is yours. Just throw away those thoughts of being another McKandles going out Into The Wild - unless you fully remember what happened to him at the end.

Just a few humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. I've been without a formal job since 2001. The mental drain of scrambling around every day to meet the current bills can be much worse than dealing with a pressures of a full-time job! Yes, I do have lots of "free" time to do whatever I want whenever I want, but I seldom have the money/fuel to go and do anything. I haven't been to a pub or the theatre in many months - just can't afford it or the fuel to travel to one. Just one of those things to consider .... when living down on the raggedy bottom edge of society.
 

saddle_tramp

Need to contact Admin...
Jul 13, 2008
605
1
West Cornwall
I hear what you say, and you gotta want it for the right reasons, my time was chasing seasonal farm work around the country, and trying to stay out of trouble in the leaner times, but i think that open_life is asking on a bushcraft forum, so i reckon he probably knows the score. I doubt his flat is so bad compared to a shop doorway, a handout blanket, and shivering all day til the soup run, but most of them lot, give them a decent sleepingbag and theyed sell it for beer money. But theres loads of people in this country, that dont have a fixed home, but dont want for one either. and dont need help, or pity

Im a bit poorly at mo (no it aint related to living outside . . tho me knees n wrists ache a bit in the damp . . lol) but if godwilling i get back to good health, il go straight back to the same kinda lifestyle as before, cos it really is fun, got loadsa mates do same kinda thing, works easy to get, and its a fun life! really!! dont pay rent, dont pay bills, hell . . hardly ever pay tax :) and if you like building benders and cooking ooer fires, and all manner of bushcrafty stuff, you get to live it all the time.
 
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open_life

Guest
http://en-gb.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2226898476

well this bloke lived outside for 40yrs in the middle of the road

now im not saying this is what i would like to do

for me it would be narrow boat/camper van/ anything other than four brick walls
some of the replys on here are very interesting and gr8 reading..

where ever i lay my hat thats my home LOL
 

OldFingersGreen

Forager
Jan 30, 2009
116
0
Manchester
Grow up.
Homelessness is NOT a lifestyle choice you wish to make voluntary. Don't be daft. Just move somewhere you can be outside more often or join the army, work outdoors or something like voluntary work over seas or charity work with a conservation charity over here.




first post i have read on this forum that i would consider rude. telling someone to grow up, no matter how foolish YOU THINK they are being is not the right course of action. i understand that having lived on the streets you would not recommend anyone giving up their home but that is no excuse to shoot an idea down in flames. besides i thought the point of bushcraft was to make yourself at home in any environment, in my case the local woods, so if i gave up living at this house, would i really be homeless?

the difference between what you and he are talking about is choice. you were obviously not given much warning and didnt have the availability of all the information we now do.
obviously im not saying he should do it, but with the right preperation and the right equipment there is absolutley no reason why it cant and shouldnt be accomplished and suggesting anybody who does is mad is a little strong don't you think?

open_life, why not consider getting some decent kit together and just spending a few days and nights in the woods, give yourself a few tasks like creating temporary shelter, making fire with wet wood and no lighter etc, and most of all just get a feel for it. After a few days reconsider your question. does it make sense to do it in your position? are you willing to sacrifice a warm bed and easy access to food for nights possibly spent cold wet and hungry? Will you be able to find support if you decide to re-enter community, as said above it would be unfair to put more unnecesary strain on charitable organisations.

a lot of thought and planning needs to go in to waht sounds like a simple question "should i go and live outside" the best thing is to forget that question and ask yourself this:

are you prepared?

cheers

dan
 
I don't really care how rude anyone thinks it is to tell someone to "grow up"because they haven't thought it fully out and obvioulsy haven't got a clue what the implications are. Maybe being a bit blunt shows you just how much I am concerend at those implications. People have to pick up the pieces when it goes pear shaped and it gets all a bit too much and the only people in this country who do end up homeless for the long term are those who are unwilling to accept help, or maintain help, and who either have one of the following or a combination of: chronic addictions, long term mental health issues and registered sex offenders who cannot maintain a home.

In this case it would likely be one of the very hard strapped homelessness charities through out the country like the one I worked for that would in the end attempt to pick up the pieces. And trust me it ain't fun having to deal with the harsh realities of involuntary or volunatry homelessness.

And I stand by the guidance I gave earlier-there are other alternatives to fulfil that need inside rather than give upa home.

WS




 

Opal

Native
Dec 26, 2008
1,022
0
Liverpool
To be honest, Woody, I thought you were a bit harsh too, I didn't think Open Life meant it in the way it came out.
icon7.gif
 

Husky

Nomad
Oct 22, 2008
335
0
Sweden, Småland
Interesting thread.

My "advice" would be to try it in small steps, as an experiment.
If you can afford your apartment, food and so on then keep them for now. (you will save money on electricity at least:) )
Just find a spot and live out for a week. Go home and take stock. What skills did you lack? How does it feel? How does it affect your work and your "being accepted" in society?
If all is OK, try again for two weeks.
 

Andy2112

On a new journey
Jan 4, 2007
1,874
0
West Midlands
http://en-gb.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2226898476

well this bloke lived outside for 40yrs in the middle of the road

now im not saying this is what i would like to do

for me it would be narrow boat/camper van/ anything other than four brick walls
some of the replys on here are very interesting and gr8 reading..

where ever i lay my hat thats my home LOL

I know of this guy as it's close to where i live, many a time i would drive past and see his tent and gas bottles in the middle of Wolverhampton ring road. The council/local businessess did look after him if i remember correctly. Not a way i would like to live tbh. He died last year which is sad as he was a real character around the city.
 

OldFingersGreen

Forager
Jan 30, 2009
116
0
Manchester
^^^^ thats sad.

Definitely wouldn't live in the middle of a ring road if i was forced out of a house, the idea of waking up every day surrounded by exhaust fumes doesn't exactly entice me, thats why i moved away from manchester city.

as for the rest of the above, i've said my peace and will leave it at that, i don't argue with the merits of what was said i just don't agree with how it was conveyed. Nice to be nice.

plus suggesting someone who currently pays the rent on a flat to just "move house" isn't exactly a great suggestion. especially at this time of economic deflation.

definitely worth experimenting before you even think of making a choice, no person on here will claim to be a master of all crafts, which to live really comfortably you would need to be. spend more time getting out and learning new skills, spend less time in the flat. go to the local library and ask them for some bushcrafty books (there is a huge list of suggested reads somewhere on here) you will find that if you spend more timing having fun and learning outdoors then any time spent in your flat wont be so bad. do what i do and get a big dustsheet and a shaving horse in your room and get a few carving projects on the way.

and of course if it gets too much there is always the good people of the bushcraftuk forums to chat too! :D
 

Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
7,983
7,760
Mid Wales
www.mont-hmg.co.uk
People have to pick up the pieces when it goes pear shaped and it gets all a bit too much and the only people in this country who do end up homeless for the long term are those who are unwilling to accept help, or maintain help, and who either have one of the following or a combination of: chronic addictions, long term mental health issues and registered sex offenders who cannot maintain a home.

I appreciate that you have far more sharp end experience of this than most of us but I would have thought that was a bit of a generalisation. I know people that have lived as hobos and wanderers that do not fall into that category at all. Chris Caine for one would not have (you may have met him as he spent a fair bit of his time up in Scotland) and a more famous overseas example would be Sea Sick Steve. Your views are based on the ones you have had to deal with - not all are like that.

Having said all that - the only advice I woul give is try it in stages and have a pre-planned exit route (money in the bank etc.). It is very hard to get off the street once your really on it.
 

Mike Ameling

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Jan 18, 2007
872
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Iowa U.S.A.
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Over the years, I've dealt with many many people who got a bad case of the ... "Walden Pond Thoreau" syndrome. They read his book, and then want to go out and do the same thing! Because HE did it and survived well!

The BOOK only tells the good parts. It left out all those other little ... details ... that allowed him to do what he did.

He was given permission to use that land by a friend - for free.
He was given tools to use - for free.
He was given lumber to use - for free.
He was given furnishings for his "cabin" - for free.
He was visited by friends and given lots of food to live on - for free.

Lots of people helped him out - so he could live his "simple" life out in that cabin next to that pond and have the time to set and contemplate his navel!

Those messy little "details" never got prominently written in his book. And too many people skim over them - only seeing the results.

As with this and many other things in life, a HARSH DOSE OF REALITY is needed!

It can be an interesting life ... out on the road ... or out in the woods - as Kierok and Thoreau and McKandles found out. But only choose it when you really know the consequences of that decision. You personally will have to "suffer" the consequences of your own actions. So wipe that misty-fantasy fog from your eyes so you know what you might be getting yourself into. And it will be very hard to come back from such a lifestyle - without mooching off of your friends too much and losing some of them.

I've seen and dealt with way too many ... wide-eyed believers ... and had to help pick up the pieces afterwards. Some did OK, many did not. The days of the ... hobo's riding the rails ... is past. Along with running away to join the circus/carnival. Times have changed.

Just my humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. You DO find far more of those three types of individuals out there living on that raggedy bottom edge of society than in normal life. Many more with long-term addictions, mental health issues - including those sex offenders, and career petty criminals. But you also do find more people who would choose to live in temp/expedient/makeshift "housing" than wanting to pay $500 to $1000 or more per month in rent for a real home/apartment. I have friends that camp at county/local parks year round - for $10 per night. They do have to move to the next county every two weeks, but it still beats paying 2 to 3 times that per month for an apartment. And most of those county parks have full bathrooms with showers, and often laundry facilities. Moving every two weeks is a small price for them to pay for what they gain.
 

Husky

Nomad
Oct 22, 2008
335
0
Sweden, Småland
I have friends that camp at county/local parks year round - for $10 per night. They do have to move to the next county every two weeks, but it still beats paying 2 to 3 times that per month for an apartment.

Do these people have jobs or are they retired so to speak?

If you want to try bumming for a while in a socially acceptable way you could get a bike and start travelling. To save money for such a trip you can "rough" it in your apartment by cutting off anything that you can do without that is not free.
 

Mike Ameling

Need to contact Admin...
Jan 18, 2007
872
1
Iowa U.S.A.
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Do these people have jobs or are they retired so to speak?

If you want to try bumming for a while in a socially acceptable way you could get a bike and start travelling. To save money for such a trip you can "rough" it in your apartment by cutting off anything that you can do without that is not free.

These people do have regular jobs. So they rotate through the county parks within about 20 miles or so of their jobs. Yes, several do have those self-contained motor home type campers, but others have tents. And several have little kids in school. So they have to be careful to only stay at campgrounds within the school district boundaries. They do occasionally stop at private campgrounds, but those usually charge more per night - but sometimes offer "long term" rates - and usually no 2-week limit.

Winter time is also a pain for them. Most county parks close for the winter season, and many private campgrounds as well. So they either have to find a friend who will let them "camp out" in/on their yard/land, or rent an apartment for a few months.

The Retired people I know doing this just tend to head south during the winter. Their "retirement home" IS their mobile camper. They live off of their savings, and pick up odd jobs along the way for "pocket money" - more to have something to do than out of necessity.

Crafting a "life" is always hard. It is easier to do in the city with a normal job and apartment/home. All you have to really worry about there is doing your job and paying your bills. That TRULY IS ... the simple life. Once you break out of the mold, life gets far more complicated. Then you have to ... craft ... your daily existence. And adjust your expectations of what really is ... necessary.

I've lived out in the "woods" or wilds for weeks at a time. I've also converted a corner in a shed or granary building into a very livable room/home. And all without "imposing" on friends. It really does clarify your mind and "expectations". You quickly learn to appreciate the smallest things in your journey through life.

And you WILL lose weight! Although it is not a ... diet plan ... I would wish on anyone. The "joke" associated with that goes something like this: a homeless man begging on the street asks a society lady for spare change saying that he hasn't eaten in 3 days - her response to him is that she wishes she had that much willpower!

All a matter of point of view.

Advice was asked for. Advice was given. Now it comes down to a matter of personal choice. And each individual must personally deal with the consequences of their choices.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. There are a lot of people who live their lives on boats - large and small. And that give them a lot more options for moving to new areas. Some of the boating forums would have more discussion of this.

p.p.s One other note about panhandlers and beggars on the streets in many big cities. In the right areas and economic times, some of those "beggars" can make $30,000 to $50,000 per year! Just by begging on the street! Most don't do that well, but some do. And they protect their "turf" from all others (places for good begging)!
 

Sussex Man

Member
Jul 14, 2008
45
0
Robertsbridge
Interesting thread open_life, A very dear friend of mine lives near limogues (sp?) in central france, he sold up his tiny house in London and decided to live in a tent ect. He bought the land he now lives on, he earns probably no more than 5000 euroes a year mending farm equipment and carving bits and bobs for locals, the winter is snowy and the summer hotter than the uk. He has a decrepid landy to bomb about in and lives in somekind of ex army mess tent/small marquis.
It sounds fantastic, he never wears shoes and eats wild asparagus etc....

However- he gets very very bored with mates romantasizing about his way of life, he is the hardest working man I know, the French women think he is a dosser, so he is pretty lonly at times and he has aged twenty years in the last 10 years.
He also misses the hectic life style we all lead, as well as being a "part" of something.

I lived with him for a summer and loved it, but when the winter came I was off to Blighty for Harveys beer and sunday pub lunches.

It is good advice - try it before you can't turn back, try over a winter (rent you flat)
if its not for you, find what is missing in your life (space, freedom etc) elsewhere..

Peace....
oh and by the way for gods sake don't grow up !
 

BushTucker

Settler
Feb 3, 2007
556
0
60
Weymouth
im thinking well have been thinking for along time to give up me home and live outside
would you ever do such a thing ?
is madness ?
i just don't like being stacked like bails of hay
under or above other people.. yep lives in a flat and it sending me loopy


any thoughts


Many thoughts and words, some not printable.

It is a dream I imagine we would all have but in reallity not a feasable or practical idea.
I have had to live this way before and believe me it is nice at the beginning but when you get cold, hungry, smelly, poorly and you will. Unless you are so outrageously knowledgeable on what to forridge and how to preserve foods then you are lost.

If you got ill, chest infection for arguments sake, if you was diagnosed by your quack and you were given a prescription for anti-biotics and you had no work and therefor no money, how would you pay for them?, without them it could lead to pneumonia and possible death.

I had a friend who died of it in his own home as he was unaware of the seriousness to his illness, he was 43!!

Just one illness cenario, but gives you an idea.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,109
2,845
66
Pembrokeshire
Over the years, I've dealt with many many people who got a bad case of the ... "Walden Pond Thoreau" syndrome. They read his book, and then want to go out and do the same thing! Because HE did it and survived well!

The BOOK only tells the good parts. It left out all those other little ... details ... that allowed him to do what he did.

He was given permission to use that land by a friend - for free.
He was given tools to use - for free.
He was given lumber to use - for free.
He was given furnishings for his "cabin" - for free.
He was visited by friends and given lots of food to live on - for free.

Lots of people helped him out - so he could live his "simple" life out in that cabin next to that pond and have the time to set and contemplate his navel!

Those messy little "details" never got prominently written in his book. And too many people skim over them - only seeing the results.
.

And I hear tell that he would often leg-it back to Boston, get paralytic on ale and oysters (at other folks expense) and then creep back to the pond.....
The man was an arrogant fake and scrounger and the book just hype!:rolleyes:
Walden is still quite pretty though and conveniently next to a main road now....

I did a year of living out of a rucksack - back when I was young and foolish;) 30 years ago -and loved it!
But I was living on savings and often ended the day in a YHA hostel (though the budget did not stretch to that very often...). I walked the length of England and Wales and still have fond memories of that time but also recall being soaked to the bone, half frozen and at times VERY hungry.
Would I do it again?

Nope - I am too old to take that kind of punishment now and old injuries from those days have come back to haunt me....but I still look back on that year with fondness...
I was young fit and handsome, had some money in my pocket and a rucksack on my back - the UK was my oyster and I had a great time that coloured my view of life.
I have little use for money now and get by quite happily on the UKs version of the Poverty line (but my home is paid for and I do have a small regular income) so I get to live as I want.
Before my trip I worked in the computer department of a commercial bank, had loads of dosh and hated life....
My philosophy revolves around the expression "If it feels right - do it! - If it don't - don't!"
As long as you are prepared to put up with the results of your decissions (good and bad) then take all the risks you want!
To me nothing has a value if you are not prepared to lose it and start again.
Without complaint!
On your own!
My mother gave me a copy of Rudyard Kiplings poem "If" and this influenced me quite a lot:cool:
Have fun!
 

locum76

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 9, 2005
2,772
9
47
Kirkliston
woodsmoke, i fully understand your thinking as I work with the homeless too. If we had to do an assessment on such a case we'd have alarm bells ringing as well.

however, some of the young guys I have worked with do manage it, they know nothing of bushcraft - they just move from place to place and scrounge what they can. it doesn't harm anyone and they are usually smart enough to find a place to stay when it gets really cold. we always worry about these guys in winter though. the streets or the woods must be pretty unbearable when you have no money , no tarp, no tent, no dry clothes etc.

there are ways of getting out of the rat race without hinding in the woods, i'd suggest getting in touch with the ubiquitous 'WWOOF' organisation - an international network thats offers free accomodation on organic farms in exchage for work. with those guys you will definitely get the chance to learn outdoors skills, whether you call it bushcraft or not.

alternatively you could do what my wife did with her friends when they were 20 - 25, work until you have a decent wedge, fill your rucksack with the basic essentials, and follow the sun. I am led to believe that having no money (2 months living on £20) while sunning yourself on a thai beach and living on coconut and saltfish you've helped the locals to sort out - is much better than living in damp wood in britain.
 

saddle_tramp

Need to contact Admin...
Jul 13, 2008
605
1
West Cornwall
Many thoughts and words, some not printable.

It is a dream I imagine we would all have but in reallity not a feasable or practical idea.
I have had to live this way before and believe me it is nice at the beginning but when you get cold, hungry, smelly, poorly and you will. Unless you are so outrageously knowledgeable on what to forridge and how to preserve foods then you are lost.

If you got ill, chest infection for arguments sake, if you was diagnosed by your quack and you were given a prescription for anti-biotics and you had no work and therefor no money, how would you pay for them?, without them it could lead to pneumonia and possible death.

I had a friend who died of it in his own home as he was unaware of the seriousness to his illness, he was 43!!

Just one illness cenario, but gives you an idea.


Why do so many assume that the moment you stop living in a house or flat, you spend your days sitting around in some apathetic state, hungry, cold, damp and unable to think for yourself?

You can find seasonal farm work 12 months of the year, much of it paid cash daily, you just need to be able to travel the country, and without a permenant address, you can.

without a vehicle to park up, theres loads of places to camp, completely undetected, you just gotta view the land from a different perspective as to where nobody goes! and theres plenty of places no'one ever goes.

you can buy what you need day to day, clothes, sleeping, cookware, tools for next to nothing at boot fares, charity shops, and then cache it when you leave, and just buy it all again in the next work area, and since your calender is mostly the same each year, everythings cached and waiting for you. so your travelling kit can be as light as you want.

build a bender in winter, insulate it with a skip carpet, stick a tin can wood burner in it, and instead of shivering, youll be sweating in there with the flaps opened up, in summer you can live under a tarp, or buy cheapo throwaway argos tents, as for losing weight, or plodding around looking for roadkill rabbits, sod that! just find some pub that aint too strict on dress code, and does a nice steak!

Only worries are fires giving your location away, so treat yourself to a decent filter (though its usually not hard to source a tap) a lidls trangia, that you can cache or carry and your sorted.

It really is a fun way to live, plenty of work, plenty of money, no hassle from social, see many of the same faces whether your working in cornwall or scotland or kent or wherever, and can be as bushcrafty as you choose to make it.
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
12,780
1,517
51
Wiltshire
Hes right.

Some of the happiest people I know are technically homeless.

But it pays to plan properly, and have a backup plan.
 

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