Where have all the men gone

[andyn]

Well said JP!

There are many others who think you are doing a good thing too. Full respect to you JP, Geoff and everyone else that gives their time to help others, whatever the cause.

Its all very well giving money to causes, and a good thing too let me add, but lets face it... The money is no good if there aren't volunteers and staff at the other end to put it to good use and do the hard work and help change peoples lives.

I've recently started at the local scout troop, they practically bit my arm off for help as they are desperate for people to help the kids in the area get the most out of the movement. I'm sure its therefore going to be the same for other causes too.

At the end of the day, if you don't want to help in person then don't - no need for excuses/justification/whatever. People can spend their time doing whatever they want.

But if threads like this inspire a few more people to step up and do something to help then all the better for it.

 

[Jedadiah]

That's right Andy, leads nicely into another point i was going to make. A lot of kid's i work with have two parents who are either too busy or cannot be bothered to spend time with them and think that they can throw money at the kids to make them happy. All a lot of kids need is a little bit of time and attention. Yes, voluntary organisations do need money, but the kids will benefit more from someone giving them a little time. If no one bothers with them then why should they bother with others?

 

[Celt_Ginger]

All I can say is "I'm glad I don't live in England" The picture being painted here is of teenagers rampent and out of control. I'm an ACF instructor and a DOE award leader and I have to say that the vast majority of kids I came accross are good kids who give little or no trouble. Most of those who we see are not from the middle classes, but from working famlies and council estates. Does living on a council estate make you a bad person? I don't think so. One of the core values of the ACF is to inspire young people to achieve. We totally encourage them to take an active role in the community. Personally, I believe that society has become too passive. People are afraid to say "I will not accept that kind of behaviour" Law abiding citizens are more afraid of the Police than the bad guys are, and that's what needs to change. Not everyone can be cut our for youth work wether they are male or female. the rewards are, however, great for those who do find the time to do this kind of work, but I won't knock anyone who does their bit for society in a different way to me

 

[Path Finder]

Hi Guys

I went to bed last wondering what response I would get to my general question something which I am passionate about myself... I have to say that there is no right or wrong here and it is great to see so many replies compared to viewings.

As I said there are a lot of men doing good work out there. I was talking about those who talk the talk but do not walk the walk, as they say.

Let me put it another way… I was sent away from home because I could not be controlled no one knew how to deal with me, now I find myself working in a residential school for young men who have behavioural problems.

I have just completed a masters and yet I have no formal school qualifications and I feel sure when I was at school some teachers said McMullan no hope whatsoever and yet here I am…Why?

Is because of Mr Pascoe from Seven Oaks the one teacher who believed in me, gave me every opportunity to do right or to screw up.

Is it because of my troop sergeant in training who believed in me and gave me every opportunity to do right or to screw up?

Is it because….

Come on, who here does not have the same story to tell of that someone special who made a difference to your life, even if it was only a brief encounter you will always remember how that person affected you.

Now my question is this while there are very, very important women in my life why is it I seem to remember only the MEN who have affected me in personal growth as a man? It only needs a few hours or special moments to make a difference in whatever area you choose to work in… it so happens I am interested in our youth of today and addictions.

One thing is for sure this post is working because as MEN we are talking. Now how do we begin to walk? For me my aim is to one day have my own wilderness residential centre for young men, maybe I will achieve it, maybe I will not, does it really matter? What matters is that along the way I am experiencing personal growth through helping others. As I said it is not for everyone, but what little we do, can make a difference, lets lead by example, there is so much skill and talent out there lets put it to some use even if it is supporting those who are out there doing it.

Please remember there is not right and no wrong there just is, if that makes me feely, feely then that is a good thing but in side I know I am a man with a heart who is only trying in his clumsy way to be of service to others.

Keep talking guys this is good.

Aye

Geoffrey

 

[Matt Weir]

OK if we are talking about men who 'grounded' us then I will have to say my sons.

My missus married me knowing about my past and present at the time and was an initial chill pill - we met when she was 16 and I was 17 and we became absolute best friends and soulmates until we eventually clicked a couple of years later.

Once the boys came along, well my world turned upside down and with realisation and necessity I grew up in so many ways.

Don't get me wrong I wasn't a bad 'un but sailed close to many winds

 

[Lurch]

I agree on the first point, but I think the second is off mark. Youth groups that deal with kids (particularly boys) are complaining of the lack of male influence.

That's because some people are starting to realise (after 30+ years of suppresion of masculinity by women and girly men) that making boys into women isn't a good idea.

 

[Dunelm]

I can't believe people are seriously suggesting that we allow the state to decide whose genes are worthy of being permitted to reproduce

The trouble is that we in the UK have an advanced welfare state that rewards the feckless, lazy and indolent - a sort of survival of the thickest. Authoritarian eugenics might not be a good idea but neither is what is currently happening.

I work on one of the worst council housing estates in the north east of England - ranked 34th in the UK for indices of deprivation. Most people are trying but a sizeable proportion are not - they don't want a job, they don't want the hassle that comes with looking after their children and if the countless millions that have been pumped into this estate over the last 20 years in anything to go by they aren't going to change their ways either. So what do you do? Turn off the money tap and let them starve?

As many have said above I'm afraid I'm too busy looking after my own family, paying the mortgage and keeping sane to worry about other people's kids. Let them eat cake.

 

[Mikey P]

"Where have all the men gone?"

Hello - I'm here. What did you want?

 

[Jedadiah]

Hows about this for a radical option. Look at kid's like weapons and cars; you cannot have one unless you have a licence. Prospective parents have to undergo rigorous training and sit an exam at the end of the training. If they pass, they get a 'Parenthood' license and can legally have children. No chemical sterilisation, no genocide and the upshot is, the parents have a better idea of how to bring the kid's up properly. If you sit the advanced test, you can have two!

If you have a child without a licence, you get a very stern talking to.

 

[Pict]

Hows about this for a radical option. Look at kid's like weapons and cars; you cannot have one unless you have a licence. Prospective parents have to undergo rigorous training and sit an exam at the end of the training. If they pass, they get a 'Parenthood' license and can legally have children. No chemical sterilisation, no genocide and the upshot is, the parents have a better idea of how to bring the kid's up properly. If you sit the advanced test, you can have two!

If you have a child without a licence, you get a very stern talking to.

Who of our parents would have passed such a test? I guess I'm an unauthorized human. Some of us turn out OK. Mac

 

[Wallenstein]

Hows about this for a radical option. Look at kid's like weapons and cars; you cannot have one unless you have a licence. Prospective parents have to undergo rigorous training and sit an exam at the end of the training. If they pass, they get a 'Parenthood' license and can legally have children. No chemical sterilisation, no genocide and the upshot is, the parents have a better idea of how to bring the kid's up properly.

I presume also that the criteria used to determine what constitutes "fitness" for parenthood would (funnily enough) be those that people like Jedadiah agree with...?

So we'd have a society of compliant, middle-class sheep content to run their lives as they're told by their Masters, while anyone who sits slightly outside of the norm is considered "undesirable" and is purged from society.

Sounds like hell on earth to me.

*shudders*

 

[buckley]

Crumbs chaps, it's all gone a bit "daily mail" in this thread!


That was written by Plato in 360BC... so some things never change! Kids are always terrorising the older generation, and you'll always have a few old duffers complaining that society was "better when I were a lad".

But most of the kids I meet and work with are polite, well-behaved and pleasant - they can be cheeky b*ggers, but that's part of being a kid.

The stories of lawless classrooms and feral children make news because they are unusual... yes, life is different to the 1950s but that's the way it goes.

Couldn't agree more, at times the moral panics and associated soap box venting on this site is over the top. I find the attitudes of superior virtue and self-righteous piousness that run though a number of threads on this site quite annoying at times.

No offence of course

 

[Tadpole]

Hows about this for a radical option. Look at kid's like weapons and cars; you cannot have one unless you have a licence. Prospective parents have to undergo rigorous training and sit an exam at the end of the training. If they pass, they get a 'Parenthood' license and can legally have children. No chemical sterilisation, no genocide and the upshot is, the parents have a better idea of how to bring the kid's up properly. If you sit the advanced test, you can have two!

If you have a child without a licence, you get a very stern talking to.

Sounds like a eugenicist wet dream, Gattaca in full force.
Here is the big question though.
Who sets the standards, who gets to pick those who who pick and choose?
Would you pass?
Would any of us pass?
We are all outside of the norm, as we all like doing stuff that the Sheeple don't. We are throwbacks to a more primitive age when people had no choice but to do it the hard way, Yet that is the way we like it, we like making stuff harder than it needs be. We don't 'belong' in an Ordered Society

 

[John Fenna]

I presume also that the criteria used to determine what constitutes "fitness" for parenthood would (funnily enough) be those that people like Jedadiah agree with...?

If you knew Jed then you would realize that this would make for a very well balanced society!

 

[Toddy]

Well, I'm disappointed.
This thread started so promisingly, simply an appeal for some of you to consider becoming involved in mentoring, helping to redress the gender inbalance.
Somehow it became a little minded, I'm all right Jack, and we ought to sterilise the unfit to breed socially unwanted, thread of bile.........and let's not forget the feminist bits either.

This is not a political site, eugenics are an appalling indictment on any society that supports them, the vast majority of children have every potential to be decent, capable people, some just need a little help along the way.
Among the people I consider to be friends on this site are those who have Aspberger's Syndrome, ADHD, long term ill health problems.........the very people that as children needed more attention but are now among some of the most capable and creative that one could hope to meet.

Eugenics ? No way, variety is the spice of life

I really do admire those who give of their time and energy to work with other people, especially the challenging ones, and yes, before anyone starts, that includes those who work with the frail and isolated elderly.

The thread started with a plea and a challenge from Path Finder,

"I often hear men complaining about our youth and why does the government not do something about their behaviour and we see on TV the results of their behaviour being acted out on our streets, what with knife crime etc.

And yet it is mostly women from all ethic backgrounds doing mentoring work I remember when I did it was mostly women but at that time there were more men. JP told me that the programme he is on said that the young men do not want to attend because they want male mentors.

So my challenge is this, our young men are crying out for good male role models so were are they why are we not stepping forward to help guide them, to show them right from wrong and to lead them by example.

I think its time we men started to behave like men and take up our rightful position we can not leave it all to the government etc.

There are of course men out there doing great work with our youth but I do believe we need a lot more.

If this has pushed any buttons for you then maybe it is worth taking a look at why if this has not pushed any buttons for you them maybe it is worth taking a look at why not.

With the best will in the world our young men need us, so come on guys step out and do it… you are more qualified than you know.

Best wishes

Geoffrey"

Perhaps more information on how men could become involved might be appropriate......any ideas or links ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[irishlostboy]

where have all the men gone?
in a society that has spent a good deal of its time undermining masculinism and reinforcing the fact that men are all sexually and morally untrustworthy, maybe men just don’t feel safe enough to help children. but then seeing as "women" have so ably proven that they are equal to us in all ways and better than us in others, then its only fair they clean up the mess, right?

look me up if we ever achieve sexual equality.

 

[firecrest]

Jed -
The problem with your idea of a license is that for the last several billion years life has been evolving contently and freely. With the introduction of the license, your basic freedom as a reproductive being on Earth is subjugated, and not merely subjugated, but put in the hands of some fat middle class white beaurocrat who also wants your finger prints on file and a chip on an ID card monitor your activity, and more fool you for playing into the hands of the nanny state. Any such legislation for a license will soon be chip chip chipped away at. These things start broad and end narrow. You're a single parent? No children for you! Disabled, dont be silly. live on a council estate? well your kids are statistically more likely to wind up criminals (because we sucked the funding out of the local school haha)...
What was that? you think bringing your children up with no electricity and living in natural shelters the WOODS is a good idea?! You teach them not to love money but experience nature?! No children for you my friend, we want to raise happy well rounded high earning consumers for this oligarchy, for that is the point of it all!

For the minority of you on here applauding each others hard line opinions on castration and other guised forms of eugenics. Its actually people like you that are the problem.
You see, These laws do not exist. saying what we aught to do is unproductive and useless.Sorry, No applaud from me for arm chair politics. If these laws are truly how you would like to see the country run, then what have you done to ensure they will be?
Have you campaigned for them?
Have you started a political group dealing with them?
Have you voted for a party that supports them?
Probably not. And this is where the problem lies. The british public is always all to happy to be shafted and do nothing about it. We always sit about proclaiming "If I ran the country.../ If we had a proper government/ if [somebody else] would sort this mess out..."
Nobody is going to do anything, so self applaud for armchair attitudes is useless. And seems as at the current times we dont have these laws and so far as I know, nobody on here actually IS running the country, then we can come right back round to the opening post - what are people personally going to do to help?

 

[Tengu]

Well, I would help, but Ive yet to come to terms with my shepee...

 

[firecrest]

Irishlostboy and Fenna
Your both great people, but stop being so soft and making excuses why some men arent working with challenging people. women do it, are you forgetting that? it isnt any easier but we do do it and so should you.

 

[firecrest]

where have all the men gone?
in a society that has spent a good deal of its time undermining masculinism and reinforcing the fact that men are all sexually and morally untrustworthy, maybe men just don’t feel safe enough to help children. but then seeing as "women" have so ably proven that they are equal to us in all ways and better than us in others, then its only fair they clean up the mess, right?

look me up if we ever achieve sexual equality.

Infact Im going to expand on this post.....

Who is undermining masculinity? Women? men? the Meedja? parents? Perhaps all of them. If men chicken out of jobs through fear of what other people will thing of them, this is not the fault of anybody but good men that drop out. All groups face adversity of some sort, there cannot be any sympathy for those that drop out at the first wiff of adversity, just because they may not have come across it before. plenty men still manage to do these jobs and these are the ones dispelling this apparent idea some people have that men are untrustworthy to work with children.
I also see you have dropped in a smear agaisnt women. Traditionally in this society, we like to blame women for problems. And apparently you think the decline in men in these jobs can be attributed to women. I guess it must be our faults then!
And you say you want sexual equality, but how is society going to achieve this while your sat waiting for others to do it for you? Why dont you be the change you want to see in the world?