Ray Mears Hits Back at Anti 4x4 Lobby

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saffy

Forager
Feb 2, 2007
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UK
Not sure if this has been posted already (I didn't notice) anyway...

Ray Mears hits back at the anti 4x4 lobby in an article titled "Ray Mears: why 4x4s mustn't become an endangered species " on the channel 4 motoring website.

FULL ARTICLE HERE
 

ggfh666

Forager
Jan 16, 2006
105
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belgium
users.pandora.be
He's right.

But do remark he says he needs it for off-road access.

Unfortunately most of the 4x4 drivers I see are suit&tie guys who've never needed off-road access.
But I can only speak for Belgium of course. In 99% it's a fashion/status thing over here.
 

spoonman

Need to contact Admin...
Feb 14, 2007
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Loch Garman
He's right.

But do remark he says he needs it for off-road access.

Unfortunately most of the 4x4 drivers I see are suit&tie guys who've never needed off-road access.
But I can only speak for Belgium of course. In 99% it's a fashion/status thing over here.

Yeah same in Ireland (fashion/status)..It's a sign of the times unfortunately were you see people drive 200 yards up the road in the 4x4 to drop the kids off at school!!! I know this one guy who saved €40,000 to buy a nissan patrol, took him ages and he now has debt & you wouldnt even get 40 to the gallon in one of those things, plus he spends most of his time in traffic as he lives in the city :confused:
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
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Mid Wales UK
Thanks for highlighting this Saffy,
I agree with Rays comments, though not about the new mini.
The only reason 4x4's are seen as Chelsea tractors is that no-one takes much notice of my mud spattered truck when I'm driving in the fields - there simply isn't anyone there to observe, but when I drive it in a town, people point out the mud as if to say - "Don't you ever think of washing it?".
I get better mileage than I've had from a few saloon cars and its still going strong after 206,000 miles. If I run it on bio-diesel, it becomes virtually carbon neutral and its emisions readings would shame many newer vehicles.

ATB

Ogri the trog
 

Goliath

Forager
Jun 19, 2006
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Netherlands
He's right.

But do remark he says he needs it for off-road access.

Unfortunately most of the 4x4 drivers I see are suit&tie guys who've never needed off-road access.
But I can only speak for Belgium of course. In 99% it's a fashion/status thing over here.

Aye, same here in Holland. You don't need 4x4's here anyway, maybe if you go to other countries alot but still...

They look good, but if too many ppl drive them, there won't be much nature left to drive in :D
 

gunnix

Nomad
Mar 5, 2006
434
2
Belgium
Here you got hunters driving 4x4's in forests so as not to have to walk a few kilometres on foot... as the forest are only a few kilometres at most.. If the 4x4's are used for offroad at all.
 

pibbleb

Settler
Apr 25, 2006
933
10
51
Sussex, England
For the right job they are perfect! But as an example of a waist: Lady I work with has a BMW 4X4. Uses it to travel to and from work each day, covering 3 miles each way, twice a day!

She got it on the off chance that her and her partner might go skiing in the South of France. A, it seems like a pointless vehicle full stop, very extravagant and not the best townie run around!

Pib
 

gunnix

Nomad
Mar 5, 2006
434
2
Belgium
For the right job they are perfect! But as an example of a waist: Lady I work with has a BMW 4X4. Uses it to travel to and from work each day, covering 3 miles each way, twice a day!

She got it on the off chance that her and her partner might go skiing in the South of France. A, it seems like a pointless vehicle full stop, very extravagant and not the best townie run around!

Pib

She must have never been in southern france as last time I've been there they got roads as well :lmao:
 

saffy

Forager
Feb 2, 2007
107
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UK
Isn't it the league against URBAN 4x4s. Like the range rover sport - doesn't even go off road.

Subtle difference it takes Ray to point out.:rolleyes:

Since you mentioned the league against Urban 4x4s... here is a post copied from another forum...

I sent a very polite e-mail to the spokesman for the Campaign Against Urban 4x4's. I asked him to clarify what they were campaigning for, how would they wish to enforce the banning of "Urban" 4x4's and indeed, could he please define one.

These were my main points :-

What would you class as an Urban 4x4? Is it a Panda 4x4, an Audi A3 Quattro, an Octavia 4x4 Estate, a Freelander, A range Rover etc. Was it based on size, CO2 or price.

Why do you say a 4x4 takes up more room on the road when something like a Discovery (mk 2) seats 7 people and is shorty than a Mondeo. Defender SW also seat 6 or 7 and sake up less space than a Focus.

Why you only quote "pollution" figures for the running of a vehicle instead of "whole life" figures as quoted by Greenpeace.

Why do you recommend the Toyota Prius as being the perfect car when it is infact longer than most 4x4's, has little luggage space due to the batteries and, in Greenpeaces words, "The worst polluting vehicle on the road today" when it comes to whole life pollution. ( Gave he the link to the Greenpeace statement )

Why do you base your "safety" arguement on figures issued in America in 1986 when a visit to the NCAP website will show you the Freelander, Honda CRV, Nissan X-trail, BMW X3 etc etc have better pedestrian safety ratings than the Focus, Mondeo, BMW series 3 etc etc.


Etc Etc Etc.....

I got a reply

It said,

Foul language removed by Tony:banghead:

Nice to hear the voice of reason!
 

MikeS

Forager
Sep 5, 2005
116
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Peterborough
I think many interesting points are made. Maybe a BMW X5 is not the right car for a run to school or the shops, however, we are really talking high value luxuary vehicles and if they are banned will only be replaced by S Class Merc, 7 series BMW's etc which are likely to be bigger.

I run a Mits L200 covered in mud and scratches (and do work in an office during the week) but spend many weekends out on the Byways etc and don't really want to have to have a car for the week and one for the weekend.

I just wish people would accept that we are look at moaning about people who can afford a nice car whether its a 4x4 or not :banghead:

Rant over

Mike
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
12,780
1,517
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Wiltshire
Your quite right in that we are moaning about people who can afford nice cars (I have only 3, and of those I can only afford to run 1...) but are chelsea tractors a status symbol?

I think not.
 

Zodiak

Settler
Mar 6, 2006
664
8
Kent UK
but are chelsea tractors a status symbol?

I think not.
but round here they definatley are. You only have to see the mothers messing about outside a Junior School in shiney 4*4s without a scratch at 8:30 most mornings to see that.

When somebody found out I was redundant and had a few bob in the bank their first thoughs were that I could buy a bigger TV or a nice Mitsubishi truck and enjoy "a bit of luxury". :banghead:

They could not understand that I am happy with my 3 year old TV (not flat screen) and 10 year old cavalier.:confused:
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
12,780
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What is this thing called a TV.

(its an acronym..cant be much good)

I too, was told to get a new car when I had a bit of money...

(I squandered it on importing a classic Nissan Skyline GTR, but never mind)

I have an old car for every day use (Ive never had a car as new as 10 years old) and treat them as disposable.

The car I had before this one cost me £100, I ran it for 2 years and when it failed its MOT sold it on Ebay, I got £66 as it was `still` low milage)

(I will say that was an exceptional car)

You cant say chelsea tractors are a status symbol as everyone laughs at them
 

gunnix

Nomad
Mar 5, 2006
434
2
Belgium
That's a rediculous response by them saffy! Some people don't seem to be able to use their brains properly and just want to get rid of every 4x4 in favor of crappy cars like the Prius (with the motto: as long as it ain't a 4x4!). The whole life figures of greenpeace are interesting, I also always remind people that you need to look at the whole life of the product to see if it's ecological: gathering of resources, production, usage of fuel, getting rid of it (toxic waste, recycling, etc). I can see an old Landrover Defender being more ecological then many new modern cars which don't use as much fuel but last much less time so needing 1,2, or 3 cars more to be produced and disposed off. Most Fiat panda's ofcourse also last for ages and don't use as much fuel... The new cars just won't last that long. (many new 4x4's look like crap too I think)

just my2cents
 

Robby

Nomad
Jul 22, 2005
328
0
Glasgow, Southside
I don't mind Chelsea tractors, It's the people that don't know how to drive and have one because it means they'll come off better in an accident. There is no real need for a 4x4 in the most part. So few people understand just how much an ordinary car will be capable of. I worked with a guy who had been a Specialist Driving Instructor with the army. We used a mix of Landrover Disco's and ford Escort vans in a quarry type environment. What he did was challenge the other drivers to take a Landrover around the site and he would follow them in the Escort. There was only one man that stumped him and he had been a driver in the army as well and knew just what you could do with a Landrover. My point being, the vast majority of people that think they need a 4x4 don't. They just need to be shown what they can do with an ordinary saloon car

4x4's do have their place and if they are used by people who know how to drive them then I don't have an Issue. There are things that you need to be aware of when driving one and I think that's the real issuethat needs to be addressed. It's not the cars themselves but the peple that drive them and how they are driven.

My own dream car is an expedition preped Landrover and trust me it would be used offroad
 

dwardo

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 30, 2006
6,451
475
46
Nr Chester
For my 2p`s worth i think its a bit unfair to pick on the 4x4`s then turn and look at something sporty like an evo or a 3.2 litre BMW/Audi and say ooo thats nice wouldent mind one of them :rolleyes:

It should be based on the cars emissions and environmental impact. I too am a recovering peterol head but like giving up ciggies recently its just gotta go, the days of peterol guzzling cars are over we no longer have the natural rescources or environment to support them.

The way is see it is the sooner we get over our addiction to peterol the better. I too love the stuff and i think fast cars are ace but i also love ciggies loads but i knew they had to go :rolleyes:
I can hear the farmers/lorry/indusry drivers screaming blue murder but their main argument seems to be "it will put the price of bread up! it will put the prices of your milk up!" etc but the way i see it is "fair enough :)" things are artificially too cheap anyways put em up you probably deserve it. As a society we no longer have enough respect for the food we have and waste tonnes of the stuff and i plead guilty myself. Maybe if we had to stick to more locally grown foods and seasonal stocks we may find a bit more of that natural rythm we all miss deep down.

No intention to cause any offence just an opinion on a fag packet ;)
 

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