Mountain Lion country

[Wink]

I'm off to Canada in July, and am looking to get out for a bit on Vancouver Island. Trouble is, it allegedly has the highest concentration of mountain lions in North America. I understand that it is rare to see one, and being killed by one is less likely than being struck by lightening. However, I am not the luckiest of individuals, and fully expect to be squaring up to an 8 foot critter before 24hrs are through, so I wonder if any of our Canadian friends (or anyone else for that matter) could give me some input?

I have got the basics of what to do if things get tricky, but my query is more about sleeping out at night. Does it make a difference if you are in a closed tent or tarp, for instance? I have this mental picture of me sleeping under a tarp with a neon sign saying "eat me" to any cougar who happens to be in the area! Fighting back would be kinda hard if you are zipped up in your bag with a 150 pound cat sinking its teeth into your neck...

That said, maybe a tent wouldn't be that protective, but at least it wouldn't advertise me as dinner.

For those who think I'm being a little over cautious, this is what i'm talking about

http://www.huntingvancouverisland.com/pop-ups/cougar11.html

Advice please!

 

[Spikey DaPikey]

would a large(ish) fire work ? most wild animals avoid it

 

[Axe Catcher]

In my experience of living in Montana for 4 years, Mountain Lions usually can't be bothered with food that puts up much of a fight. When I was in Northern Montana they used to eat domestic house cats and a group of them would occasionally pull down a young bison, but for the most part they seemed to go for little easy food and survive quite well on local wildlife.

They don't seem to be opportunists, mostly seeming to eat once maybe twice a week rather than when food presents itself. The couple of times I've faced off against them they ran quickly when I made noise and made myself big (waving arms etc) and a good stout stick won't hurt. The biggest problem you may have is that they are very curious, and if you're sleeping in the open you may find one snuffling around you trying to figure out what you are.

If you follow good back-country camping guidelines, keep a clean (and un-fragrant) camp, keep all foodstuffs on high lines in sealed bags and snore loudly they should well keep clear. Like bears they are more likely to come across you accidentally and be just as alarmed by a contact as you are.

Hope that helps and that you have a great time.
AC

 

[bluemountaingunworks]

Wink,
Here in Utah we have a healthy population of lions as well. In my experiences, they are very wary of people and easily frightnened off, as Axe Catcher said, by appearing large and making alot of noise. That being said, there is always an inquisitive cat in the country who wants to find out a little more about you. More than likely it will be an immature tom or a female with a litter close by. These cats take a little more animation to scare off. Sometimes a gunshot across their bow is needed for them to get the point. As far as camping, I have always had luck preventing any kind of critter that might want to take a bite of me from entering my camp with the following technique. Once you have established your campsite, start encircling it with human urine. Start at one point and literally draw a circle with urine around your area. This will obviously take some time, but if properly hydrated it goes easily. Predators use urine to mark boundaries and they are used to sniffing around for others' as well to determine who/what is in the area. They are generally also very leary of humans and will avoid them at all costs. The urine tip is a double whammy- you've got your territory marked with a substance that they will take notice of and it smells like people. Besides owning a gunshop, I am also a trapper and can attest to this fact personally from years on the trapline. Of course this is not 100% foolproof and I would suggest packing a firearm as well if allowed. I definately would not allow the fear to overcome the enjoyment. Encounters with wild animals are rare and infrequent. Have a good time and God Bless! Jerry

 

[Axe Catcher]

Once you have established your campsite, start encircling it with human urine. Start at one point and literally draw a circle with urine around your area. This will obviously take some time, but if properly hydrated it goes easily. Predators use urine to mark boundaries and they are used to sniffing around for others' as well to determine who/what is in the area.

Good advice, it works to keep deer from eating the veg on your patch at home as well however, being of the female persuasion, it's more difficult to do the urine boundary thing on the spur of the moment When I did it around my garden I had a bit of time (and facility) to get the job done, but otherwise this is strictly male form of protection.

AC

 

[hammock monkey]

it'd be great to see some photo's of the lions, or their tracks / scat etc if possible?
have a great trip tho - it sounds awesome

 

[Wink]

Thanks for replies so far. I will definitely have a go at the urine thing, but I would struggle to keep a fire burning all night, as I sleep like a log most of the time...

If I get a glimpse of anything exciting, I will take some photos, assuming I haven't got my hands full (of Mountain Lion) at the time.

Keep the advice coming!

 

[Joshua]

Cougars rarely attack people and I wouldn't worry about it if I were you unless you are a small child or very elderly. That said, they like to attack from behind and above. Hope you have fun in BC.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I am skeptical about animals being afraid of fire. I have read too many reports about fires not keeping African critters out of camp and it strikes me that forest fires and camp fires don't have enough in common for an animal to mistake one for the other. I think it more likely that animals have come to associate a small fire in the bush with humans...if they are wary of humans, the fire is a neon sign to stay away. If they are not intimidated by people, then the fire isn't going to bother them much. Dunno if it is true, but it doesn't seem beyond the realms of the possible.

For sleeping arrangements, most predators need some learning experience to figure things out. A tent might not be very sturdy, but unless the animal either has natural behavior for getting into things, or already knows that tents hold campers, and campers are tasty, I would think you would be safer than in the open. Not that I would fret much about being grabbed by a cougar from my sleeping bag.

I did read one snippet about a guy in South America who was kept trapped in his hammock for over an hour by a jaguar sitting under him...apparently facinated by the swinging motion

What is the bear population like where you will be going?

 

[Axe Catcher]

What is the bear population like where you will be going?

Oooh, Bears!! That's a whole other kettle of fur and fangs...I'll be interested to hear if you have bear liklihood as well Wink.

AC

 

[Spikey DaPikey]

Just a thought, would an airhorn work ? Just that i got some from my local Poundland a few weeks ago ??

 

[Wink]

I did some research, and apparently British Columbia has the largest Black Bear population in the world and Vancouver Island Black Bears are the biggest! In fact, Vancouver Island Black Bears have just been discovered to be a separate sub-species of Black Bear, now known as the Island Bear. There are no Grizzly Bears on the Island, though.

As far as I know, bears are more likely to be a nuisance than a threat, unless they feel threatened. I've been told to cook away from where I'm sleeping, and change out of my cooking clothes before going to bed, because of the bears attraction to food smells. Food and anything smelly is to be suspended by ropes in the trees well away from the sleeping area so that the bears don't have a rummage.

Funnily enough, I think I am more wary of the cougars than the bears, although I think the chances of surviving a cougar attack may be higher. It's just that the cougars could actually be stalking you and you wouldn't know until it was too late, whereas bear encounters are more likely to be due to bad campsite procedures or bad luck in stumbling across them by mistake.

 

[Wink]

Just a thought, would an airhorn work ? Just that i got some from my local Poundland a few weeks ago ??

It might do. They sell things called Bear Bangers out there which are like mini rocket launchers (pen size) that shoot a round towards the bear, which then explodes with a very loud bang between you and them, hopefully scaring them away. Might also work on cougars.

Not much use when asleep though!

 

[Axe Catcher]

As far as I know, bears are more likely to be a nuisance than a threat, unless they feel threatened. I've been told to cook away from where I'm sleeping, and change out of my cooking clothes before going to bed, because of the bears attraction to food smells. Food and anything smelly is to be suspended by ropes in the trees well away from the sleeping area so that the bears don't have a rummage.

Funnily enough, I think I am more wary of the cougars than the bears, although I think the chances of surviving a cougar attack may be higher. It's just that the cougars could actually be stalking you and you wouldn't know until it was too late, whereas bear encounters are more likely to be due to bad campsite procedures or bad luck in stumbling across them by mistake.

To be honest, in terms of danger to your person, neither one is likely to bother you much, the cooking and storage advice is good, and depending on the weather the same goes for anything "smelly" I don't know if you're likely to, but steer clear of deodorant/cream anything like that. If it's really cold the scent won't travel so well, but it's something to be aware of anyway and if in doubt, stick it in a plastic bag with a bit of bicarb. (I remember the ranger delicately approaching the subject of "menstruation products" which still makes me laugh)

I'm trying to remember my ranger classes about back-country hiking when I was up in Glacier National Park, hiking into Canada, from what I remember bears are bolder than mountain lions, they are more prone to curiousity, and it may sound mad, but as long as the bear is "posturing" i.e. pawing the ground, growling or gnashing it's teeth you would be fine with slowly backing away, but keep facing the bear. If a bear is hunting it won't give you any warning and the best course of action is to curl up on the floor with your head as far between your knees as possible and your hands around the back of your neck. If you get the chance for an open shot, whack it as hard as you can around the nose/muzzle area.

With Mountain Lions, back away slowly, don't run otherwise you may kick off it's natural chasing instinct, don't move towards it or otherwise make it feel trapped or cornered. Don't try the foetal position thing with a cougar, it's important to make yourself big and not worth the effort of a fight. Having a stout stick with which to fend off the cat will help it decide this. Shouting calmly is better than screaming, and try to intimidate it without moving towards it.

I came face to muzzle with a Grizzly in the burn forest of Glacier while I was there, she had her cub with her and did a lot of posturing, slapping the ground with her paws and clacking her teeth, but didn't charge me, in bluff or anything more serious. I backed away and hid behind a bush until she passed me by.

With either animal, if it turns it's back on you, breathe a sigh of relief, stay quiet and in the same place for about half an hour afterwards, that would be a good time for a sweet cup of tea and change of underwear!!

AC xx

 

[Axe Catcher]

It might do. They sell things called Bear Bangers out there which are like mini rocket launchers (pen size) that shoot a round towards the bear, which then explodes with a very loud bang between you and them, hopefully scaring them away. Might also work on cougars.

Not much use when asleep though!

Oooh, last thought Wink, get a couple of little cannisters of pepper spray, and keep one in your pocket, Bears hate it and Cougars should as well.

 

[Voivode]

Oooh, last thought Wink, get a couple of little cannisters of pepper spray, and keep one in your pocket, Bears hate it and Cougars should as well.

I live and play in bear and cougar country and have read extensively on the subject. A whole lot of this is bunk. The only bit you need to do is to keep your food activities away from your sleeping activities; store and cook your food downwind of your sleeping area, about 100 metres away, leaving your cooking clothes there if you are cooking fragrant foods. That is all there is to it. Bear encounters are 90% of the time ended before you even know they're there; they leave the area when people come around. The rest of the time, you either sneak up on them or they're habituated. If you accidentally sneak up on them, sneak back out quickly. That's it. If they're habituated and they come to you, then you've got a problem and you need to fight if they get close.

I can tell you that a "little cannister of pepper spray" will do nothing in the face of a bear charge. You need proper bear spray if you're worried about such encounters, sold and labeled as such. Pepper spray designed for dogs and people are not strong enough to dissuade a bear charge and generally mist an area rather than putting out a concentrated stream. Bear move fast; a general fog 2 metres in front of you isn't going to slow them down, but a concentrated stream in the face from 10 metres back will.

Urine is nice and salty and will only attract wildlife. Don't pee around your campsite, it doesn't stop them and only makes the place unsanitary.

The number of bear attacks is very, very low, according to some very good research done by Dr. Herrero of the University of Calgary. The number of attacks decreases as group size increases, going to 0 when a group of 6 or more is present. That is, there have never been any attacks on groups that large. Most attacks are against individuals out alone who surprise a bear who either has a cub or an animal carcass.

Cougar are opportunists, as others have said. Their prey size is of the child/dog variety, not an adult human. The attacks by cougar recorded against adults are rare and are generally the desperate ones; sick or old.

In all, you have little to fear from these animals. Honest. Keep your camp clean and your senses about you when hiking and you'll be fine. A cannister of bear spray can provide you with some safety as well.

Edit: For food storage, hoist your food bag (and clothes) at least 4 metres off the ground, preferable between two trees so it is free hanging. Bears can climb trees, so just lobbing it up a branch isn't going to help. There are plenty of directions on the net. Many campgrounds (out here, anyways) provide either a "bear pole" for hanging food or animal-proof storage lockers.

 

[Voivode]

...as long as the bear is "posturing" i.e. pawing the ground, growling or gnashing it's teeth you would be fine with slowly backing away, but keep facing the bear. If a bear is hunting it won't give you any warning and the best course of action is to curl up on the floor with your head as far between your knees as possible and your hands around the back of your neck. If you get the chance for an open shot, whack it as hard as you can around the nose/muzzle area.

With Mountain Lions, back away slowly, don't run otherwise you may kick off it's natural chasing instinct, don't move towards it or otherwise make it feel trapped or cornered. Don't try the foetal position thing with a cougar, it's important to make yourself big and not worth the effort of a fight. Having a stout stick with which to fend off the cat will help it decide this. Shouting calmly is better than screaming, and try to intimidate it without moving towards it.

If the bear is posturing, as you put it, you should back away slowly. Do nothing threatening and don't run!!! If you run, you may provoke the predator instinct and now you're prey. Usually a charge is a bluff, so don't run if you're charged. Honest to god. You will want nothing more in the world than to run, but if you do you're as good as mauled. Back away slowly, be peaceful. Do not attempt to climb a tree; they can climb far faster than you can and you need to make it at least 32 feet off the ground (the maximum recorded bear climb) before you might be safe. If the tree is small, they will knock it down to get you. If you are attacked by a defensive bear, go fetal and try to protect your vitals. They will go for your neck and head. Don't drop your pack; it will help protect your back and neck. Do not fight back; as a general rule, a defensive bear will knock you around a bit, maybe give you a bite and then take off. Lay still for as long as you possibly can; if you get up too quickly you may provoke the animal to come at you again. Wait for it to leave and then get the heck out.

I must contradict your predatory bear advice though. You do not go fetal when a predatory bear attacks. You fight back with everything you can muster. A predatory bear is out to eat you and if you lay there, you're easy. Predatory bears act funny; they don't seem bothered by your presence and will target you, walking straight at you. No huffing, no pawing and no fake charges. Just relentless. Pepper spray him, get the biggest stick you can muster and prepare to fight for your life. Slowly retreat if given the opportunity; just as with all animals, move when they aren't looking or can't see you.

The bit about mountain lions is good; they are pure predator and will take what they can get. If you look and act big, you aren't worth their time.

 

[Voivode]

It might do. They sell things called Bear Bangers out there which are like mini rocket launchers (pen size) that shoot a round towards the bear, which then explodes with a very loud bang between you and them, hopefully scaring them away. Might also work on cougars.

Not much use when asleep though!

I'm still posting! I can't leave it alone!

Bear bangers are often used to clear an area of wildlife, not so much as a projectile weapon. You point it at the sky and pop it; they are loud and will alert all the wildlife in the area of human presence. Helps you to not stumble across a bear on the trail.

They are also used in the manner you describe, but not so much; the terror tends to cloud the mind and if you keep it in the bottom of your bag it isn't any use; you have to keep your bear spray and bangers within easy grasp.

 

[Wink]

Thanks Viovode! So am I alright sleeping under a tarp?

 

[Voivode]

My pleasure. I've never heard of anyone being dragged from beneath a tarp for dinner, and there are plenty who tarp-camp. Go for it, and just have fun!