Which .410?
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You won't catch me saying it's not a real gun. A 410 was my first gun; given to me by Mama when I was 3. I still have that gun (also a single shot; an JC Higgins Model 1011) I haven't shot in in years though, mainly due to the cost of 410 ammo now-a-days (It's more expensive than 12 gauge here) The only thing I wouldn't try with it would be dove hunting (they are flying at 60+ MPH and normally barely within range of a 12 gauge) or waterfowl hunting (also due to the range; usually 35-50 yards) But for up close and personal with rabbits, squirrel, and quail, they're great, fun little guns.
I've never "lost" a rabbit either as long as I remember the limited range of the 410. Nor a squirrel, nor a quail? That said, I expect our shooting might be a bit different. You pix indicate somebody spotlighting rabbits at night (I believe you call it lamping) That's illegal here. And most of my daylight shots are at moving targets. Hence the need for a quick second shot to get the second target before it's either out of range or behind cover.
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Quite right the guy in that photo was indeed lamping - rabbits are seen as "pest control" in many places here (including our tiny corner of the world), I suspect what you call "Dove" we call Pigeon. Also very much a pest, and certainly no "bag limits" - quite the reverse in fact - good pigeon shooters are encouraged and have their shells paid for by farmers - bags in the hundreds are not uncommon.
They can be pests here as well. Rabbits (bunnies) are usually under game laws with bag limits and seasons whereas Jack Rabbits (hares) usually are not protected at all. In fact they're vermin in many western states. But the restrictions against "lamping" isn't really to protect them, rather it's to keep poachers from doing the same with big game by masking their intentions by blending in.
Not quite, although they are in the same family and closely related. We have a few species of doves but the one that's actually hunted is the Mourning Dove (sometimes called the Turtle Dove. As they're migratory, seasons and limits are set by the federal government (and I believe they do so in concert with Canada and Mexico as they are also in the same migratory range) Hunting them is usually done by placing shooters around a harvested field of corn or grain where the migrating flocks stop to feed on the chaff; or often around here, the state plants fields (20-40 acres plots) of natural feed on the State Forest lands for the benefit of the migrating flocks and the hunters.
Another couple of questions, I assume there's nothing daft about owning a moderated shotgun - i.e. it'll just be recorded on my SGC and I don't need anything special for the mod? Also, I assume the mod is easily removed? I might need to break it down a bit to store it.
There is no special permission needed for a mod on a section 2 firearm (you do need a separate permission for a section 1 mod)
The Mod cannot be removed from the Mossberg, it is permanently attached and the barrel has been ported to bleed gasses into the expansion chamber. You can though easily remove the barrel with the mod attached (indeed if you do not do this you need an extra tall cabinet).
The Mod cannot be removed from the Mossberg, it is permanently attached and the barrel has been ported to bleed gasses into the expansion chamber. You can though easily remove the barrel with the mod attached (indeed if you do not do this you need an extra tall cabinet).
Red, I'm still drooling over your suppressed .410 Mossberg since the first time I saw it. As easy as guns are to get here, something that is a real hassle to get in the US is a silencer. It is a $200 transfer tax over the cost of the silencer plus it takes about a year nowadays to get the Federal paperwork processed. So, you have to buy it, pay the tax, then wait for approval. You should always also carry a copy of the tax stamp paperwork with you when transporting and using the silencer. Only 36 states allow them, and only a very few just started allowing them for hunting, with one of those being Texas.
The .410 I'm using the most nowadays is the .410 subcaliber adapter I use with my 12ga pump Mossberg. I have a dedicated .410 that is a real game getter, an ancient Winchester model 37 that has a full choke on it (.375"). However, the Mossberg is much more versatile and almost indestructible. It also stores more compactly when I need it too due to easy barrel removal. The Winchester doesn't break down quickly and easily like other break actions often tend to do, like an H&R Topper, for example. So when I toss a long gun into the jeep or the boat, it's invariably the Mossberg. However, the old Winchester is a joy to shoot and it makes the most out of what a .410 can do.
The .410 adapter actually gives a pretty good spread at closer ranges. Needless to say, there isn't any choke to the pattern. It's kind of like a .410 blunderbuss, but it works on cottontail rabbits. Essentially, I jack back the pump slide with the barrel pointed down, drop in the adapter with a .410 shell in it into the ejection port and down into the barrel, then close the action. It works great. The smaller kids also like it due to the much lower recoil and so I'll also use it in shotgun instruction courses with some of the students
Extraction of the adapter happens just like a standard shell, only with a pump you have to make sure you don't fling the adapter like spent plastic shell, so you eject it mildly. I usually eject it right into my hand. With a break action it's a simple affair. Getting the spent shell out of the adapter is never a chore, just bump the tip of the open end of the spent shell with a fingertip and the base pops right out.
On my 12ga Mossberg I have a buttstock pouch with a .410 adapter, a 20ga adapter, and a 2-3/4" rifled .22LR adapter. They store inside the pouch in standard 12ga shell loops.
The 20ga uses standard length shells, which is the vast majority of the 20ga ammo you will find here. The .410 adapter is a bit longer and can use full length 3" shells, which are usually the most commonly available here. There are several models available, the .410 and 20ga adapters I use are both from different manufacturers and were $25 each, while the rifled .22 adapter was $60.
The .410 adapter can also fire a .45 Colt pistol cartridge. The .410 has it's origin as a .45 Colt shotshell, hence the chamber compatibility (of course we all know that one should never fire a .45 Colt out of a .410 with a choke). However, I don't bother with .45 Colt ammo since it's a smoothbore and accuracy with a .45 Colt round with it is dismal at any meaningful range. For anything I would use that for I can just use a 12ga slug or a .22LR round.
The 20ga adapter works well, with a decent spread. It'll bring down quail. Of course, there is no choke on it either.
The rifled .22LR adapter is surprisingly accurate, enough to hunt small game with at 40 meters. How that works is the bore is offset so the centerfire firing pin on the shotgun strikes the rim of the rimfire cartridge. For consistent shot placement you should 'index' the adapter so the offset bore is either high in the chamber or low in the chamber. It'll fire any rimfire .22 ammo, including the 6mm Flobert BB cap roundball and a .22 pellet fired with a .22 blank round like they use in nail guns (the ones I've used have been the Remington yellow tip). A .22 pellet is a tad smaller than the bullet in a .22LR (IIRC it's .221" for the pellet and .223" for the .22LR though that can vary with manufacturer), so a small ramrod to push the pellet into the beginning of the rifling before inserting the blank is a good idea. The best accuracy though is with standard high velocity .22LR solids or hollowpoints. You remove the spent cases with your fingernail.
Using the pump is a trade off, since I can only use chamber length adapters (3" chamber). With a break open you can use longer adapters. Some adapters in shotgun gauges have their own extractors/ejectors. I found out through trial and error that one company, Short Lane, makes their rimfire adapters with an offset measured to only work reliably with the typically wider firing pin of a break action vs the typically more narrow firing pin of a pump (it seems they did it to save a couple of machining steps).
In case anyone is curious about the models I'm using:
.410 adapter http://www.gunadapters.com/
20ga adapter http://shotgunadapter.com/
Rifled .22LR adapter http://www.gaugemate.com/
The .410 I'm using the most nowadays is the .410 subcaliber adapter I use with my 12ga pump Mossberg. I have a dedicated .410 that is a real game getter, an ancient Winchester model 37 that has a full choke on it (.375"). However, the Mossberg is much more versatile and almost indestructible. It also stores more compactly when I need it too due to easy barrel removal. The Winchester doesn't break down quickly and easily like other break actions often tend to do, like an H&R Topper, for example. So when I toss a long gun into the jeep or the boat, it's invariably the Mossberg. However, the old Winchester is a joy to shoot and it makes the most out of what a .410 can do.
The .410 adapter actually gives a pretty good spread at closer ranges. Needless to say, there isn't any choke to the pattern. It's kind of like a .410 blunderbuss, but it works on cottontail rabbits. Essentially, I jack back the pump slide with the barrel pointed down, drop in the adapter with a .410 shell in it into the ejection port and down into the barrel, then close the action. It works great. The smaller kids also like it due to the much lower recoil and so I'll also use it in shotgun instruction courses with some of the students
Extraction of the adapter happens just like a standard shell, only with a pump you have to make sure you don't fling the adapter like spent plastic shell, so you eject it mildly. I usually eject it right into my hand. With a break action it's a simple affair. Getting the spent shell out of the adapter is never a chore, just bump the tip of the open end of the spent shell with a fingertip and the base pops right out.
On my 12ga Mossberg I have a buttstock pouch with a .410 adapter, a 20ga adapter, and a 2-3/4" rifled .22LR adapter. They store inside the pouch in standard 12ga shell loops.
The 20ga uses standard length shells, which is the vast majority of the 20ga ammo you will find here. The .410 adapter is a bit longer and can use full length 3" shells, which are usually the most commonly available here. There are several models available, the .410 and 20ga adapters I use are both from different manufacturers and were $25 each, while the rifled .22 adapter was $60.
The .410 adapter can also fire a .45 Colt pistol cartridge. The .410 has it's origin as a .45 Colt shotshell, hence the chamber compatibility (of course we all know that one should never fire a .45 Colt out of a .410 with a choke). However, I don't bother with .45 Colt ammo since it's a smoothbore and accuracy with a .45 Colt round with it is dismal at any meaningful range. For anything I would use that for I can just use a 12ga slug or a .22LR round.
The 20ga adapter works well, with a decent spread. It'll bring down quail. Of course, there is no choke on it either.
The rifled .22LR adapter is surprisingly accurate, enough to hunt small game with at 40 meters. How that works is the bore is offset so the centerfire firing pin on the shotgun strikes the rim of the rimfire cartridge. For consistent shot placement you should 'index' the adapter so the offset bore is either high in the chamber or low in the chamber. It'll fire any rimfire .22 ammo, including the 6mm Flobert BB cap roundball and a .22 pellet fired with a .22 blank round like they use in nail guns (the ones I've used have been the Remington yellow tip). A .22 pellet is a tad smaller than the bullet in a .22LR (IIRC it's .221" for the pellet and .223" for the .22LR though that can vary with manufacturer), so a small ramrod to push the pellet into the beginning of the rifling before inserting the blank is a good idea. The best accuracy though is with standard high velocity .22LR solids or hollowpoints. You remove the spent cases with your fingernail.
Using the pump is a trade off, since I can only use chamber length adapters (3" chamber). With a break open you can use longer adapters. Some adapters in shotgun gauges have their own extractors/ejectors. I found out through trial and error that one company, Short Lane, makes their rimfire adapters with an offset measured to only work reliably with the typically wider firing pin of a break action vs the typically more narrow firing pin of a pump (it seems they did it to save a couple of machining steps).
In case anyone is curious about the models I'm using:
.410 adapter http://www.gunadapters.com/
20ga adapter http://shotgunadapter.com/
Rifled .22LR adapter http://www.gaugemate.com/
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I've always wondered, would a pump chambered for 3" shells cycle the little 2" ones? If so, it would need to be Fac?
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Sent from my GT-I9505 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2
5 years on....
Out of curiosity does anyone load their own 410 cartridges?
Although there's a fair bit on info on the net and in books they do seem rather tricky to reload and not as common as other gauges.
log on to www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk cost nothing to join, but more likely to get information about reloading on there.
I used a bolt action Webley Scott for a number of years until I 'missed' a grey squirrel from 10 yards. So surprised was I by the miss that I set up a pattern plate for a few practice shots. What became apparent was that the shot was clumping together leaving large gaps in the pattern; instead of getting about a 100 hits on the plate there were only 4 or 5 impact points observable. About 80% of the carts fired patterned as expected but the other 20% exhibited what I believe is called 'balled shot'.Apparently this is not an uncommon event with 410. Anyway, whilst in the garden the next day the same squirrel that I thought I had missed limped up to my feet. I could see marks on its shoulder where it had been hit by the shot. It was obviously in so much discomfort that it wanted me to dispatch it, which I did. This was such an unsettling event that I never used the 410 again.
In my collection of a dozen shotguns, I had several .410. The Boito (Brazil) s/s was the cutest thing in the field.
But there wasn't enough shot for positive kills on Ruffed Grouse. Just a bit on the risky side for good shooting.
A little more would be a lot better. If I had a use, I'd buy another one in a minute and not blink.
Like Santaman says, finding .410 ammo and paying for it are two BIG issues here.
I've kept just 2 shotguns, the s/s Baikal 20 ga is a wonderful grouse gun. A real pleasure to shoot.
Best recommendation for all sorts of small game. Much better choice of cheaper factory loads, too.
Needed stock work on the comb and cheek to center the patterns. But it fits me OK.
I kept a Baikal o/u 12 ga for all other birds, wild turkeys and clays included.
The only shotgun that I've ever owned where I have to carry tools as parts fall off.
Still, for such a pig of a gun, it fits me like a hand in a glove.
Reloading. Primers, shot, wads, hulls and powder all come in different size units.
With a 25 lb bag of 7.5 shot., I would have to reload more than 1,200 shells to have no leftovers.
The hard-to-get component here are the primers.
Back in the day, I was shooting no more than a flat a week (250) so reloading made little sense.
But there wasn't enough shot for positive kills on Ruffed Grouse. Just a bit on the risky side for good shooting.
A little more would be a lot better. If I had a use, I'd buy another one in a minute and not blink.
Like Santaman says, finding .410 ammo and paying for it are two BIG issues here.
I've kept just 2 shotguns, the s/s Baikal 20 ga is a wonderful grouse gun. A real pleasure to shoot.
Best recommendation for all sorts of small game. Much better choice of cheaper factory loads, too.
Needed stock work on the comb and cheek to center the patterns. But it fits me OK.
I kept a Baikal o/u 12 ga for all other birds, wild turkeys and clays included.
The only shotgun that I've ever owned where I have to carry tools as parts fall off.
Still, for such a pig of a gun, it fits me like a hand in a glove.
Reloading. Primers, shot, wads, hulls and powder all come in different size units.
With a 25 lb bag of 7.5 shot., I would have to reload more than 1,200 shells to have no leftovers.
The hard-to-get component here are the primers.
Back in the day, I was shooting no more than a flat a week (250) so reloading made little sense.
Pigeonwatch would seem a better bet or better still one of the US sites for help. I posted here as I was curious to see if anyone here reloads 410, especially as some kits were sold a few years back.
I've not heard of this and it's not something I've come across even though I pattern my guns a fair bit. The Webley and Scott 410 I used just seems to shoot very high. I'm also very aware of the limitations of the lack of shot in a 410 which isn't helped by companies using large shot in their cartridges.
I've now read a few articles on balled shot as, by the sounds of it, it's something that may affect a badly home loaded cartridge as well, so something to be aware of.
