Ground Dwelling Advice

[garyc]

Hi All,

As a hammock sleeper, I'm after a bit of advice from those more experienced sleeping on the ground!

On the 10/11th June I'm doing a ~43 mile training walk in preparation for an 86 mile walk that I'm doing in November this year. I'll be starting at Goring and Streatley and following the Ridgeway Trail through to Ivinghoe Beacon. Due to the distance I'll find somewhere to camp overnight (likely wild camping), and I think it's a bit risky to bet on finding an ideal place to set up my hammock!

I could buy a bivvy, I understand some have space to store a rucksack. Another option is to use my DD Superlight 3x3 to make a tent (or just a covering) with a DD Magic Carpet as a ground sheet (I'd be tempted to buy cheapish walking poles for this option, I'd like to try walking poles anyway).

I'm not looking to spend a fortune, but this is unlikely to be a one-off requirement, so a survival bivvy wouldn't be a good option

Any advice appreciated!

Gary

 

[Mesquite]

Another option is to use my DD Superlight 3x3 to make a tent (or just a covering) with a DD Magic Carpet as a ground sheet (I'd be tempted to buy cheapish walking poles for this option, I'd like to try walking poles anyway).

That's a good option to go with.

Combine it with a bivvy bag you'll be plenty sheltered

 

[garyc]

Combine it with a bivvy bag you'll be plenty sheltered

Thanks for the reply Wouldn't I need a bivvy OR a ground sheet, no point in both is there? Although I'm not counting every gram, extra weight takes it toll over a large mileage. Also, if I went the bivvy route, could I get away with not being covered, and side-sleep if it does rain? (that may be a stupid question, apologies if it is!)

 

[Nice65]

I'd definitely pack the DD Superlight, if only for bad weather in November. And do try some poles, they make a remarkable difference to walking, and are great tent poles. I'd prefer a groundsheet, mat and bag to a bivvi bag, the distance you're walking means having a miserable night is going to be a pain and affect your day.

Personally I'd really prefer a lightweight 2 man tent to take the hassle out of it. You'll be tired, need some food, better to have somewhere to just crawl into rather than faff with making a tarp tent.

The sleeping bag and mat in your training walk will need adjusting to November temps. And again, try some poles.

 

[garyc]

The sleeping bag and mat in your training walk will need adjusting to November temps. And again, try some poles.

I won't be sleeping outside during the November trek, and I won't be carrying anywhere near the weight, thankfully! A lightweight tent or hooped bivvy would be nice but I'm not sure I can stretch a budget that far. I'll grab a couple of poles from Decathalon, they're pretty light and cheap and will be perfect for a tarp shelter... and if they aren't for me then I haven't lost much. Thanks for the response

 

[Bushcraftsman]

I've used the "tarp tent" config loads of times and I swear by it! Either that, or if you're not a fan of actually using the walking poles whilst walking (like me) just take one and use it to set up a fully enclosed tarp set up. you need one pole, and there's absolutely no way the weather will get into your set up! it's like a 3 sided pyramid.

also, if weight/bulk is your issue, get a snugpak special forces bivvy, they pack up smaller than your hand and weigh next to nothing! 2 of my friends use them and love them. The magic carpet would be ok but your feet end wouldn't be protected so if the ground is already wet when you pitch up either your matt or bag (or both!) are going to get wet. If you don't want to get a bivvy, I'd not bother with the magic carpet if you haven't already bought one. just grab a cheap piece of tarpaulin from somewhere and cut it to a little big bigger than your matt. Will probably pack down just as small!

when we did hadrians wall, my mate just used that plastic sheeting people use to add another "glaze" to their window. he just folded it over. weighed nothing, packed tiny, and worked fine for the week.

Absolutely last resort. If you're going superlight and you've not got a really thin matt. Just use a couple of bin bags! I've done this a couple of times to save weight but since upgrading to the Neoair Xlite (which is ridiculously thin walled) I wouldn't want to risk puncturing it so always have something thicker underneath me.

 

[bopdude]

The DD superlight and bivvy option with a lightweight inflatable mat and bag.


About 3 kg and almost bombproof

 

[underground]

If you're buying poles in Decathlon, look out for the Black Diamond ones with 'flick lock' adjusters. They are a simple mechanical lock that can be tightened etc. as required. Mine are gold coloured, simple 2 section poles and cost very little

 

[Tonyuk]

Bivvy bag, 3/4 length inflating mat and a small alpkit tarp. With the bivvy the tarp only needs to cover your head & shoulder area meaning you can also store a bit of kit under it. Very light and packable, it stores about the same size as a tennis ball.

https://www.alpkit.com/products/rig-3-5

Tonyuk

 

[garyc]

I'm a bit concerned that if I went the bivvi route, I'd find it too hot or too restrictive. Also if I use a tarp with a bivvi, as some people have suggested, then the bivvi isn't providing anything the tarp isn't already doing apart from keeping me away from the ground (I appreciate there are benefits if it's colder so it's not something I'll dismiss completely).

After reading all your suggestions, I think I might try the following:

• Using the DD Superlight tarp I already own to make an A frame or tent shelter (config depending on weather conditions).
• Using a cheap tarp as a ground sheet, cutting this to size will be about 200g for 2.1x1.2m.
• I'll get the ARP100 or ARP200 poles from Decathlon (£10-16 for a pair).

It's not the lightest shelter system but it isn't heavy or too bulky either. Total weight for shelter is 700g (plus ~460g for the poles) and 1.8-2.5kg for my sleep system.

 

[IC_Rafe]

I use the superlight together with a British goretex bivy. However the bivy is the one i usually regret taking, unless it's really raining hard or very windy.

Trekking poles are nice, but i've found the cheap ones usually have terrible straps. With my Leki poles i don't have an issue, with my cheap decathlon poles i had my wrist open after an hour because the straps edges were normal webbing, so constantly scraping and grating. You want as smooth straps as possible (the poles themselves were good xD)

 

[hughtrimble]

Also worth noting that the bivi won't necessarily protect you from the ground - if you're on the ground you need a mat or pad of some description otherwise the ground will just drain heat from you. Some bivis don't really allow for mats inside the bag, so they have to go on the outside.

 

[garyc]

I think the poles are a given no matter the setup, so I'll try them out in the shop (thanks for the strap advice IC_Rafe!)

Thanks for all the advice, it's been very helpful! So after some more thought and googling and based on the suggestions here, the two options I see are:

1.

• DD Superlight tarp (owned) to make an A frame or tent shelter (config depending on weather conditions).
• Using a cheap tarp as a ground sheet, cutting this to size will be about 200g for 2.1x1.2m.

2.

• DD Magic Carpet (owned) for a head cover
• Hunka XL Bivvi - More water resistant than the Snugpak SF Bivvi and lighter than the Army Goretex (although more costly), guessing I can fit a sleeping mat in their too

Both options weigh in at approximately 660g, and although the bivvi option is more expensive it actually would be a lot more flexible (could use it without a tarp, with a bigger tarp if going with more gear, and feel confident sleeping in torrential down pours). I think the deciding factor is actually the fact that the Hunka XL is out of stock until 4th July!

So unless anyone has any other comments or suggestions, I'll probably go with the tarp and ground sheet set up and get a bivvi ready for an stupidly long walk in the South Downs Way next month

 

[McGruff]

If you search on google maps you might be able to identify some likely-looking wooded spots for a hang on your walk. That might spoil the fun of exploring though.

On my first real trip with a hammock (& thermarest & DD 3x3 tarp) recently I packed a space blanket in case I couldn't find a couple of trees at the end of the day and had to tarp-tent. They're reasonably tough (up to a point..) and don't weigh any more than a packet of crisps. Sound a bit like a packet of crisps too.. Hunt around on ebay for one which is long enough to cover you head to toe with a bit to spare. I got one in gold for the bling factor

The DD superlight pyramid tent is pretty cheap without the inner. A pyramid would handle strong winds much better than a tarp although not quite as well as a Trailstar with its ability to pitch low. On the other hand, if you're going to do a lot of winter camping a pyramid will shed snow much better than a Trailstar.

 

[McGruff]

Poles for walking? My own view is that they're only really useful in the same sort of conditions you'd want 4x4 drive in a vehicle: very heavy loads, loose slippery ground, steep terrain, river crossings. Apart from that they'd be in my pack.

 

[garyc]

I could probably find woodland for a hang in the evening, but the mileage is quite long I don't want to have to stop early or push on further than I have too, sleeping on the ground mean I have a lot more freedom. The pyramid tent does look good, I'll be practicing creating my own in the garden tonight lol

I always carry a space blanket

I've never really seen the point of hiking poles, but I did a bit of investigation a while ago and it seems your arms can take around 25% of the effort, this could be invaluable on the 86 miles I'll be doing so it's worth a try. Also means I can pitch up the tarp without worrying about finding trees or sticks

 

[petrochemicals]

http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/bivybags/bivybag-eventpu

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Camping-C...-Foam-Sleep-Pad-Army-Thick-Warm-/292004840470

https://www.webtogs.com/en-UK/Rab-Ignition-3-Sleeping-Bag/31061wmp.htm?colour=Oxide&size=Left Zip

 

[Nice65]

Poles for walking? My own view is that they're only really useful in the same sort of conditions you'd want 4x4 drive in a vehicle: very heavy loads, loose slippery ground, steep terrain, river crossings. Apart from that they'd be in my pack.

No, they offer a great deal of support, spreading the load across four points instead of two. I've had one hip replaced, the other is badly worn and painful. I tried trekking poles to make dog walking and walk in camping a bit easier, what a difference. Day after a good walk, the triceps feel it as much as the legs, so there's definitely a spread of load.

It's the simplest thing, and it's roots are way back. A staff, stick, or trekking pole makes things easier.

 

[McGruff]

Sure problems with joints could be another reason to use poles.

 

[IC_Rafe]

Poles for walking? My own view is that they're only really useful in the same sort of conditions you'd want 4x4 drive in a vehicle: very heavy loads, loose slippery ground, steep terrain, river crossings. Apart from that they'd be in my pack.

Have you actually tried them though? I thought the same thing. Thought they look silly. Then i bought a cheap pair since i wanted to use my tarp, where no trees are nearby. Used them like that a few times, and then actually used them as intended (that was the time i rubbed my wrist open, but even then, i noticed the difference in my legs and my back). The day after i bought some good poles (the straps on the ones i had were terrible), and haven't looked back since. I still think they look silly, i think i look silly using them, but i'm long past the time where i cared how i look, and will just use what's effective. They help a lot, even on paved terrain. (Unless your longest hike is just a couple of km over paved grounds into a campground, then sure, they won't be as usefull.)