carrying metal objects during a thunderstorm?!

[forrestdweller]

sorry in case this got already discussed, but my search did not show any results....

it's rainy season here in Korea right now and the last few days have been rather wet and humid, so when the weather was dry for a while today i decided to take the opportunity to go for a bikeride along the river. not too long after i headed out another big cloud rolled in over the mountains and i just reached a bridge (== bikepath runs underneath) when it started to pour down again so i decided to wait until it was over. after maybe 10min it changed from rain to thunderstorm-- not a proper northern australian thunderstorm, but still too close for my liking! i've been out in thunderstorms before and not for the first time was wondering "can the metal objects i carry attract lighting?!""
over the years i came across contradicting infos reg. this subjects: some text sources say you're fine carrying knifes etc. but i remember my grandfather telling me long time ago that a farmer in his village got killed in a thunderstorm when the lightning struck his scythe....


anyone able to enlighten me which way is correct?!

 

[mrcharly]

Small metal objects won't make much difference.

A scythe is quite a big object, particularly if you were out in the open.

If caught out in lightning, don't shelter under a tree. Lie down flat in the open. Best of all, get in a car with the windows shut.

 

[santaman2000]

Some of the official advice seems conflicting on the surface but when you think of the logic behind it, it'll make more sense. The following two links state that you should avoid metal objects such as tractors, golf clubs, motorcycles, etc. But as mrcharly says, those are pretty large objects. At the same time they advise getting in, or staying in, a large metal car (canoe liveries also advise getting on the riverbank and crawling under the overturned canoe even though the canoe is often metal) The reasoning is that such structures act as a faraday cage.

Anyway, here's the two official links www.srh.noaa.gov/sjt/?n=lightning and www.ready.gov/thunderstorms-lightning

 

[Robson Valley]

I've seen some very strange photography. Things called "stepped leaders" come off stuff on the ground, mostly high points.
And they do not need to be metal (trees get hit, right?)
When the cloud charge connects with one of those, the lightning strike happens.

Long ago, I was helping an uncle with wheat harvest on the plains od Saskatchewan. Man, you and the tractor are the biggest thing for miles (to the next tractor).
I was instructed that if a sudden Tstorm developed, maybe lightning, to shut off the tractor, take my raincoat, walk 100 paces and crouch down.
Also never to go near wire fences = the strikes can induce fatal currents in the wire, transformer style.

I think that the safe, operative thing to do is to avoid being a high point and get away from what are high points, metal or not.

 

[forrestdweller]

thanks for the replies!
seems that i won't have to shed my knives and other tools during thunderstorm and run away from them....

i know of the "" dont be the tallest object and stay away from solitary trees"" rule-- i guess the farmer my grandfather told me about made that mistake...
seeking shelter in a safe building or car is something i know, too ( in 2006 i was inside a large metal shed in W.A. when it got struck by lightning-- nobody was harmed) but its not very helpful when youre far away from one.... ( i don't own a car and wouldnt even want to drive one here: not only do they drive on the wrong side (for me) of the road but south koreans are the worst car drivers in any country i have been...)
what i cannot understand is why cars are supposed to be safe but tractors not?!

some survival manuals suggest using a space blanket in a way similiar to a car but thats a myth as the material is too thin!

 

[santaman2000]

.....what i cannot understand is why cars are supposed to be safe but tractors not?!.......

Because tractors often have a open seat rather than an enclosed cab and even when they do have a cab, it's more glass and less metal (faraday cage) than the cab of a car; although tractors do usually have more total metal to attract lightning. They also stick up higher into the air (they're taller)

 

[Robson Valley]

If some of these practical suggestions seem impractical, wait until the power pole 20' from you head takes a BIG HIT.
By the time that your head stops clanging and swinging and your vision recovers,
the prudent suggestions for lightning protection will sink in very quickly.

Our prairie strikes can be 60,000 amps each and hit every 2 seconds or less in a Tstorm.
So you come to visit. Night time, we shut off all the lights, make huge quantities of popcorn
to be washed away with large measures of beer, put out feet up and watch Mother Nature's show.

 

[mrcharly]

Years before I met her, my wife's house was hit by lightning.
Amongst other interesting effects, most of the wiring in the house was vapourised. In an upstairs room, the blast from this was sufficient to blow a stool 13feet across the room and clean through a multi-paned wood framed window. The stone roof was lifted in the air, rafters and all.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Lightning goes where the lowest resistance path to ground is. Metal that forms part of this path will tend to have lower resistance than wood, but metal alone does not attract lightning like a magnet attracts iron filings. In fact, there is evidence to suggest that small metal objects worn on the person can save the life of someone struck by lightning. If the current flashes over the surface of the person (more likely if the person is wet from the rain) and encounters a metal object, energy is drawn off in heating the metal. The metal is generally melted and can cause burns, but there is then that much less energy to break down the barrier of the skin and cook organs. Not sure how this plays out with the bolt stopping the heart.

The farmer may well have been struck on the sythe, but then, we was quite possibly carrying it over his shoulder, in which case it may have been higher than we was and got hit for that reason. Also, pointed objects tend to allow a stream of ions to escape upwards more so than rounded surfaces. These ions are part of the low resistance pathway and would be a precursor to the stepped leader that Robson Valley describes. Another thing which encourage plumes of ions are warm air rising, as from a crowd of people, or huddle of animals.

Image from https://thescythemandotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/scythe-safety6.jpg?w=584

The other advice I have seen, if one is caught in the open, is to crouch with feet together, so that a ground strike is less likely to have current go up one leg and down the other.

 

[forrestdweller]

Because tractors often have a open seat rather than an enclosed cab and even when they do have a cab, it's more glass and less metal (faraday cage) than the cab of a car; although tractors do usually have more total metal to attract lightning. They also stick up higher into the air (they're taller)

makes sense- I'll remember that in case i find myself in a tractor and a thunderstorm approaching ( happened 3years ago in OZ but we reached the house before it started)

 

[forrestdweller]

Our prairie strikes can be 60,000 amps each and hit every 2 seconds or less in a Tstorm.
So you come to visit. Night time, we shut off all the lights, make huge quantities of popcorn
to be washed away with large measures of beer, put out feet up and watch Mother Nature's show.

sounds like northern Australia during wet season....

 

[Robmc]

Strange how differently a lightning strike can have an effect.

A friend of mine was watching a football match during a storm. when somebody approached him and said "Do you know that you have just been struck by lightening?"

On inspection, the spike on the top of his umbrella had a hole punched clean through it, had the person not informed him, he would have been none the wiser!

 

[Fraxinus]

I used to watch fantastic Thunderstorms playing out over the Libyan Sea, sat back with a beer or three and watched nature's great light and sound show.
I was told by a local that it was not wise to take shelter in a cave as the lightning can travel into the cave, it had apparently happened to a farmer some years before.
Might be something to it, I don't know, but will always heed the advice just in case.

Rob.

 

[forrestdweller]

I used to watch fantastic Thunderstorms playing out over the Libyan Sea, sat back with a beer or three and watched nature's great light and sound show.
I was told by a local that it was not wise to take shelter in a cave as the lightning can travel into the cave, it had apparently happened to a farmer some years before.
Might be something to it, I don't know, but will always heed the advice just in case.

Rob.

i found that advice in a survival book, too: apparently when a lightning hit a rock surface it travels downwards along it. if there's a a cave it travels into the cave, along the ceiling and then down onto the floor--- so if you're standing in the cave you're shorten the path of the lightning and it takes a shortcut through your body.....

the problem is what if you happen to live in a cave - how would you make it lightning proof?!

 

[Robson Valley]

I'll guess that 60,000 years ago, paleolithic Man had a far different interpretation of thunder and lightning.

 

[forrestdweller]

I'll guess that 60,000 years ago, paleolithic Man had a far different interpretation of thunder and lightning.

i was more thinking about todays cave dwellers-- if my memory serves me correctly people in parts of northern africa and cappadocia still live in caves carved out of soft stone. not to mention "" primitive"" peoples in tropical regions and hermits/monks ( i've met one....)
or someone (even if its maybe not very likely) in a survival situation sheltering in a cave (or under a bridge during a thunderstorm)

does the risk depend on the size of the cave?!

(not trying to smarta*** anyone, just curious)

 

[santaman2000]

.......or someone (even if its maybe not very likely) in a survival situation sheltering in a cave (or under a bridge during a thunderstorm)

does the risk depend on the size of the cave?!

(not trying to smarta*** anyone, just curious)

I was wondering the same thing about the cave sizes?

Here thunderstorms are often accompanied by tornadic activity and sheltering under a bridge might be the only option. However I wouldn't reccomend it out west where the washes (dry creek beds) often flash flood within minutes of a downpore.

 

[Robson Valley]

OK, well, first, you have to have some vertical scenery in order to have the rock for a cave. We even still build them. Called bricks.
The "vertical scenery" around my house is 5000' - 8500' mountains in all directions.
In the past 15 years of living here, I'm surprised how few decent(!) electrical storms we get.
Rarely anything worth watching. Thunder-grumbles, a few flickers of light and that's it.

However, the point of strike is anyone's guess. The middle of a pasture or 4,000' up a mountainside. Who knows?
Rare, odd-ball accounts get preserved in oral histories for generations. I can't believe that the probabilities are any better for a hit on
a big spruce tree, 20' from my front door.

 

[Seabeggar]

What you need to carry is one of these a Tesla Suit (personal Farraday Cage) or you can make your own chain mail suit, I guess it counts as Bushcraft (plenty of YouTube videos on how its done with cheap wire)

When I worked in the Himalayas saw a number of lightning victims. The locals buried old iron pots a few yards from their mud and often corrugated iron roofed houses.

 

[forrestdweller]

.....uuuhhhhmmmm..... i cannot really see myself wearing a chainmail suit during outdoor activities

what was the purpose of burying metal pots near the houses-- some from of "" primitive"" lightning rod?!