Surplus shop miserable tight sods

[jimbo75]

I know what you mean. To be fair, my (very) local suplus shop is very helpful, and prices are often very keen, but suplus shops often dont seem to help themselves (mine isn't on the net, and doesn't even take cheques any more, never mind cards). Thanks to the net, its possible to find out thewholesale/market price of something from your phone, so coming up with an eye wateringly high price off the top of someones head is just counterproductive.

And the reality is that they are essentially selling second hand goods. Thats OK, but be realistic in pricing, and recognise that the market has changed for clothes. 25 years ago. I would buy surplus for going on a excavation (and so would everybody else, which gave a flavour of a highly disorganised paramilitary unit). Now, for about a tenner, I can buy some cargo pants from Primark, which are not in camo (try going to a neighbours barbecue is DPM camo, and see what looks you get). Or For about £13 you can get some decent trousers in Tool Station or Screwfix, and less than that at Aldi (I got a load for £3.99 - great value).

So selling knackered C95 jackets at silly prices isn't really go to fly any more. I'm not sure about haggling, but its a business where the price is not always the price - its not Tesco's. I totally agree about haggling in the high street - just sad. I blame Money Saving Expert and the like. Frankly, customers can be very odd - we now have charge 5p for a bag, but you'd be amazed at the people demanding you give one free (the law says no), even though they'v just spent £1200 on a macbook.

I also work in retail, and most surplus shops look awful. Frankly, the average charity shop looks like Harrods compared with the bulk of them. My local one is very small, and crammed with stuff. Ok for a rummage, but not customer friendly to someone in a hurry. Most surplus stores smell of surplus, and look like a military jumble sale. Grotty is generally the look, with homemade signs, a front window that hasn't be changed since 1985, often crude fittings (or 5th hand) and camoflague netting everywhere (why?). The changing rooms, if they have one, tend to be on the crude side.

My local people are very nice, but a lot are really rude and unpleasent (the bloke in Poole carried on swearing and being crudely sexist at the top of his voice, even though he could see I had my kids with me - not going there again), and they seem to have never walked into another shop, so carry on in a way which no chain retailer would allow.

There are some really great surplus stores, but most are pants, and even the best ones could be better. I work part time for a retailer which is known to be 'posh', so I'm used to decent shop fittings, good display and layout, and a focus on customer service. But just going around somewhere like TKMaxx (which is basically selling stuff which is surplus), you could see what a surplus store could look and feel like if they thought about it. Decent racking, no camo nets, proper shelving, and room to look. And knowing what they have in stock. Shopping shouldn't be like going to a jumble sale.

Loads of suplus stores have gone to the wall - the internet has changed everything, and rents are high. I like my local store, because I can try stuff on, ask questions, and have a good rummage. But if your rubbish, I wont be going again. If a store wants to survive, they need to give the customer the sort of experience they could expect elsewhere.

I agree with everything you just said. You are now in my circle of trust.

 

[jimbo75]

Incidentally. The best ones I ever went to were in the states. Very clean and chirpy.
Also, the bushcraft store has always been friendly (even though they no longer do surplus).
maybe I'm just getting a lot less tolerant with age. My wife would agree that!

 

[boatman]

Big ticket items, we always negotiate on the price even in big chain's stores. Smaller places, it depends.

 

[Corso]

I know what you mean. To be fair, my (very) local suplus shop is very helpful, and prices are often very keen, but suplus shops often dont seem to help themselves (mine isn't on the net, and doesn't even take cheques any more, never mind cards). Thanks to the net, its possible to find out thewholesale/market price of something from your phone, so coming up with an eye wateringly high price off the top of someones head is just counterproductive.

And the reality is that they are essentially selling second hand goods. Thats OK, but be realistic in pricing, and recognise that the market has changed for clothes. 25 years ago. I would buy surplus for going on a excavation (and so would everybody else, which gave a flavour of a highly disorganised paramilitary unit). Now, for about a tenner, I can buy some cargo pants from Primark, which are not in camo (try going to a neighbours barbecue is DPM camo, and see what looks you get). Or For about £13 you can get some decent trousers in Tool Station or Screwfix, and less than that at Aldi (I got a load for £3.99 - great value).

So selling knackered C95 jackets at silly prices isn't really go to fly any more. I'm not sure about haggling, but its a business where the price is not always the price - its not Tesco's. I totally agree about haggling in the high street - just sad. I blame Money Saving Expert and the like. Frankly, customers can be very odd - we now have charge 5p for a bag, but you'd be amazed at the people demanding you give one free (the law says no), even though they'v just spent £1200 on a macbook.

I also work in retail, and most surplus shops look awful. Frankly, the average charity shop looks like Harrods compared with the bulk of them. My local one is very small, and crammed with stuff. Ok for a rummage, but not customer friendly to someone in a hurry. Most surplus stores smell of surplus, and look like a military jumble sale. Grotty is generally the look, with homemade signs, a front window that hasn't be changed since 1985, often crude fittings (or 5th hand) and camoflague netting everywhere (why?). The changing rooms, if they have one, tend to be on the crude side.

My local people are very nice, but a lot are really rude and unpleasent (the bloke in Poole carried on swearing and being crudely sexist at the top of his voice, even though he could see I had my kids with me - not going there again), and they seem to have never walked into another shop, so carry on in a way which no chain retailer would allow.

There are some really great surplus stores, but most are pants, and even the best ones could be better. I work part time for a retailer which is known to be 'posh', so I'm used to decent shop fittings, good display and layout, and a focus on customer service. But just going around somewhere like TKMaxx (which is basically selling stuff which is surplus), you could see what a surplus store could look and feel like if they thought about it. Decent racking, no camo nets, proper shelving, and room to look. And knowing what they have in stock. Shopping shouldn't be like going to a jumble sale.

Loads of suplus stores have gone to the wall - the internet has changed everything, and rents are high. I like my local store, because I can try stuff on, ask questions, and have a good rummage. But if your rubbish, I wont be going again. If a store wants to survive, they need to give the customer the sort of experience they could expect elsewhere.

come back when you own a retail company

 

[Old Bones]

come back when you own a retail company

I'm just speaking as someone who works part-time in retail, and who actually likes buying stuff from surplus stores (although I have no real use for 90% of it).

As a customer, I'm simply saying - make life easy for us.

When I pass a surplus store, the first thing I notice is often the window display. All too many (including my local one) have that weird anti fading plastic stuff on the window (have you seen a proper shop using this stuff?), so everything looks slightly orange. Even so, often the display stuff is faded - the one that used to be about 20min walk away from me seemingly wasn't changed in the 6 years that I shopped there.

Outside there are often pretty tatty Infantry bergens, plus possible a dump basket or two full of old boots, etc. Then you go inside. Often a depressing amount of Web Tex, etc (OK, so they have to make a living), and stuff crammed in every space. I know rents are high, and you've got to make every inch count, but I know just how much I hate Sports Direct (for so many reasons), in part because everything is crammed into as little space as possible - just trying to walk around the place is a trial. Sometimes less is more.

Third or fourth hand shop fittings, old dummies, and the smell of surplus (OK, I quite like that, but there are limits), often lots of dust (Laurence Corner had the air of Miss Faversham's house), plus the almost inevitable camo nets. Why camo nets? You know its a surplus place - you don't need to go overboard.

And then there are the prices. As I said, mines pretty good, but some are just taking the mick. Using 'SAS', Special Forces' or 'Tactical' on a badly written sign doesn't justify a stupid price.

What I'd like to see is a light airy shop (you know, not dingy), well kept and stuff easy to find. The sort of fittings and layout that you'd find in a proper shop, and no camo nets. A changing room (if there is space) that doesn't make you think you need a jab afterwards if you use it. Reasonable prices, and a clear explaination of what it is. Also an easy way to pay - my local one only takes cash. They seem to be doing OK (they get a lot of trade from blokes about to go on tour, reinactors, etc), but if I spot a mint 68 Pattern Para smock, thats going to set me back £50 or more - I certainly don't have that sort of cash on me, but if I can pay by card, then I might well go for it.

If a surplus store had the sort of fittings and look of the average Oxfam, with perhaps some framed military posters on the wall, and a decent window display, they'd probably do quite well. It would certainly be more welcoming.

The other surplus store in my area closed down a couple of years ago, and the bloke apparently now sells via Ebay. There were probably a lot of reasons it closed down (poor location and no parking, for a start), but it was amazingly depressing inside. And if you were polite and listened to him, you'd be there for hours. Thats not surprising - the last time I went in, he admitted I was his fifth customer...all week. I can see why the net looked like a better bet to him, but he didn't help himself either.

Everyone in retail really has to work a lot harder now, including me. And that includes surplus stores as well.

 

[brambles]

I always haggle - do you do Police discount? Do you do student discount? How about your staff discount then? Round it up less for cash?

So you are a police officer student who works in the shop concerned and is prepared to get charged with fraud?

 

[jimbo75]

I'm just speaking as someone who works part-time in retail, and who actually likes buying stuff from surplus stores (although I have no real use for 90% of it).

As a customer, I'm simply saying - make life easy for us.

When I pass a surplus store, the first thing I notice is often the window display. All too many (including my local one) have that weird anti fading plastic stuff on the window (have you seen a proper shop using this stuff?), so everything looks slightly orange. Even so, often the display stuff is faded - the one that used to be about 20min walk away from me seemingly wasn't changed in the 6 years that I shopped there.

Outside there are often pretty tatty Infantry bergens, plus possible a dump basket or two full of old boots, etc. Then you go inside. Often a depressing amount of Web Tex, etc (OK, so they have to make a living), and stuff crammed in every space. I know rents are high, and you've got to make every inch count, but I know just how much I hate Sports Direct (for so many reasons), in part because everything is crammed into as little space as possible - just trying to walk around the place is a trial. Sometimes less is more.

Third or fourth hand shop fittings, old dummies, and the smell of surplus (OK, I quite like that, but there are limits), often lots of dust (Laurence Corner had the air of Miss Faversham's house), plus the almost inevitable camo nets. Why camo nets? You know its a surplus place - you don't need to go overboard.

And then there are the prices. As I said, mines pretty good, but some are just taking the mick. Using 'SAS', Special Forces' or 'Tactical' on a badly written sign doesn't justify a stupid price.

What I'd like to see is a light airy shop (you know, not dingy), well kept and stuff easy to find. The sort of fittings and layout that you'd find in a proper shop, and no camo nets. A changing room (if there is space) that doesn't make you think you need a jab afterwards if you use it. Reasonable prices, and a clear explaination of what it is. Also an easy way to pay - my local one only takes cash. They seem to be doing OK (they get a lot of trade from blokes about to go on tour, reinactors, etc), but if I spot a mint 68 Pattern Para smock, thats going to set me back £50 or more - I certainly don't have that sort of cash on me, but if I can pay by card, then I might well go for it.

If a surplus store had the sort of fittings and look of the average Oxfam, with perhaps some framed military posters on the wall, and a decent window display, they'd probably do quite well. It would certainly be more welcoming.

The other surplus store in my area closed down a couple of years ago, and the bloke apparently now sells via Ebay. There were probably a lot of reasons it closed down (poor location and no parking, for a start), but it was amazingly depressing inside. And if you were polite and listened to him, you'd be there for hours. Thats not surprising - the last time I went in, he admitted I was his fifth customer...all week. I can see why the net looked like a better bet to him, but he didn't help himself either.

Everyone in retail really has to work a lot harder now, including me. And that includes surplus stores as well.

I concur...............

 

[mrcharly]

I'm just speaking as someone who works part-time in retail,

working part-time in retail is not the same as trying to keep a business afloat.

 

[Tengu]

Old Bones, the look of a disorganised paramilitary unit is de rigeur in Archaeology...

But you describe surplus stores very well.

 

[Old Bones]

working part-time in retail is not the same as trying to keep a business afloat

But the problem is that they are often not.

Ignore my working in retail, just think of me (or you) as customers. Would we want to go into a shop which had a window display which was faded and haphazard? Do we want to rummage around for ages trying to find the right size for a jacket? Will we visit a store which is dingy and cramped? And would any of us pay large amounts of money for something we can rather cheaper on the internet?

I like my local store - I can try things on, see what condition they are in, and just spot something I take a fancy to while looking around. I even quite like the smell of surplus. The prices are very fair, and they are very helpful. If they took cards and had more space, I'd be delighted. But a lot of surplus places (and other retailers) have closed. High rents, often poor locations, and of course the internet have all played their part. Retail is very hard work at the moment, and its not easy to make a living out of stuff with often small margins and low turnover, and that's before thinking about Ebay, etc.

If they want to survive, they have to look at what the rest of the High Street is doing, and move with the times. If they looked at the style of many outdoor stores, they could adapt some of those ideas, and of course TKMaxx etc also have things they could copy. That's all I'm saying.

Old Bones, the look of a disorganised paramilitary unit is de rigeur in Archaeology...

As is the drinking...

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

Its a tricky one this, i agree tho mate that a lot of shops fall well below. I kinda like have a rummage tho? I go to one in hingham in norfolk, hell its got a dirt floor in half the shop, i love it habe a proper rummage throuh old stuff. Always buy something. The one in my own town, chap seems very uninterested. Had it for years and its been in the family for years. It has so much potential if he went online. I would buy the business off him just to try and push it further you know, I've worked in retail since I was 16. I went into management early at around 22, I then had a successful 10 year stint in one retailer where i was creating merchendising guides for stores, i was customer service trainer, i was support manager for 11 other stores, i did audits, won awards etc, i finished retailing last march after moving to screwfix and seeing how a major retailer functions. In thjs time i also as stated above attempted to start trading in surplus with the intention of opening my own shop, selling menswear and hunting gear as well as surplus and workwear. I know small format retail. I know what you have observed is correct, delapidated shop fittings, crumbling stores, bad decor, dark shops, poor customer service etc. All valid points. My observation though is generally the set up costs require around £25-40k, shop premises need to be found, they need to have parking near by, this puts the value of the property up, foot fall needs to be high, on the high street i was paying £55,000 a year rent, before i even opened the doors! Heat it, light it, power it, telecomms, stock etc. Then you next biggest outgoing, wages, myself, a deputy manager, 2 weekday part timers, two weekend part timers, and never having a saturday off again for 10 years, thats a total cost £50-60,000 again! So most army shops, got one guy or two running it. Shop fittings are well down the list i would imagine after paying out all that.

So you bought your stock, let me say that again, you BOUGHT IT. its not a range thats supplied by head office, that when its finished with in 5 months goes on sale, or gets shipped out, its not on sale or return with the supplier, you own it. Your money is tied up. And it takes you 2 years to sell all the kit, but as your selling it you are having to replenish the bits you sold to keep the shop full, so gradually you aquire stuff the that sells that turns over, and you begin to hold stock that never sells and no one wants,but if you hide it up it will never sell anyway, so it becomes a weight round your neck that you either lose money on each sale or write it off. So then this geezer comes in and says i want a goretex, i might add really difficult to sell as, they need to be graded, it might not now be water proof anymore, you have no idea how its been treated in its life but it looks ok, he comes in, tries it on, hums and hars, asks you for a bit off, you weren't predicting this particular item to be bartered with today so have no figures prepared, so you try and remember what you paid, how long you've had it and what the going rate is outside your shop for same item, you pitch a figure, he pitches lower, you havent eaten today and that jackets been on the shelf for 6 months and it needs to move on so you can buy something more popular, you agree. He pays by card, you have to pay the bank for the card sale via your pdq machine, you rent the line and the hardware also from the bank. He goes out, 2 weeks later comes in, complains it leaks, well it is second hand isnt it! Well, you now refund him, charged again by card company, he also has buyer protection on that sale from card company as an extra safety net for the buyer just so you know, he goes out with his money back, you now have a faulty item, that again, you own, its not on sale or return, nor can you claim your money back from the supplier, as its second hand no guarantee! Its un sellable, it owes you money, its cost you money to sell it, and now, it cost you £12 -25 to buy in, you cwn just chuck it away then mate. Failed.

Now, you got more stock coming, you still havent paid off the last lot, you work 7 days a week, you cant afford the latest shop fittings, you have no financial backing from head office, you are head offiice, you can't shift some of your stock, you dont have a shop on a major footfall route because, hey this shop was all you could afford, and you got this dribbler in the shop haggling o'er 2 quid.

Theres a shop in norwich, becketts, fantastic new looking shop, new gear, great customer service, always have led zeppelin or deep purple playing in the shop, massive range, proffesional outfit, looks like an army verion of millets, i dont go in often, i just rummage through the old stuff out front lol.

Its a tuff world in retail, I'm glad for now I'm out of it, but those management skills got me a job the defense sector. Awesome. Saturdays off with the family and no haggling. Love it.

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

Let me also add that military gear is a very specific product with limited appeal, we all love it but its not mainstream products. Its not food or drink, its not consumables, it doesnt wear out very quickly, its not essential kit, its not sports related, it has no branding or advertising drumming up demand, it isn't fashionable in most cases, it isnt high value, it isnt jewellery, it generally excludes female buyers and young buyers, its not pretty or trendy, your mates are all in river island spending their beer tokens on jeans to help pull a fit bird on a saturday, why would you spend the same money on webbing or a pup tent that you may not use! (Im generalising sorry) . Without clever selling it is a tricky product.

 

[mountainm]

Its a tricky one this, i agree tho mate that a lot of shops fall well below. I kinda like have a rummage tho? I go to one in hingham in norfolk, hell its got a dirt floor in half the shop, i love it habe a proper rummage throuh old stuff. Always buy something. The one in my own town, chap seems very uninterested. Had it for years and its been in the family for years. It has so much potential if he went online. I would buy the business off him just to try and push it further you know, I've worked in retail since I was 16. I went into management early at around 22, I then had a successful 10 year stint in one retailer where i was creating merchendising guides for stores, i was customer service trainer, i was support manager for 11 other stores, i did audits, won awards etc, i finished retailing last march after moving to screwfix and seeing how a major retailer functions. In thjs time i also as stated above attempted to start trading in surplus with the intention of opening my own shop, selling menswear and hunting gear as well as surplus and workwear. I know small format retail. I know what you have observed is correct, delapidated shop fittings, crumbling stores, bad decor, dark shops, poor customer service etc. All valid points. My observation though is generally the set up costs require around £25-40k, shop premises need to be found, they need to have parking near by, this puts the value of the property up, foot fall needs to be high, on the high street i was paying £55,000 a year rent, before i even opened the doors! Heat it, light it, power it, telecomms, stock etc. Then you next biggest outgoing, wages, myself, a deputy manager, 2 weekday part timers, two weekend part timers, and never having a saturday off again for 10 years, thats a total cost £50-60,000 again! So most army shops, got one guy or two running it. Shop fittings are well down the list i would imagine after paying out all that.

So you bought your stock, let me say that again, you BOUGHT IT. its not a range thats supplied by head office, that when its finished with in 5 months goes on sale, or gets shipped out, its not on sale or return with the supplier, you own it. Your money is tied up. And it takes you 2 years to sell all the kit, but as your selling it you are having to replenish the bits you sold to keep the shop full, so gradually you aquire stuff the that sells that turns over, and you begin to hold stock that never sells and no one wants,but if you hide it up it will never sell anyway, so it becomes a weight round your neck that you either lose money on each sale or write it off. So then this geezer comes in and says i want a goretex, i might add really difficult to sell as, they need to be graded, it might not now be water proof anymore, you have no idea how its been treated in its life but it looks ok, he comes in, tries it on, hums and hars, asks you for a bit off, you weren't predicting this particular item to be bartered with today so have no figures prepared, so you try and remember what you paid, how long you've had it and what the going rate is outside your shop for same item, you pitch a figure, he pitches lower, you havent eaten today and that jackets been on the shelf for 6 months and it needs to move on so you can buy something more popular, you agree. He pays by card, you have to pay for the card sale via your pdq machine, you rent the line and the hardware also from the bank. He goes out, 2 weeks later domes in, complains it leaks, well it is second hand isnt it! Well, you now refund him, charged again by card company, he also has buyer protection on that sale from card company, he goes out with his money back, you now have a faulty item, that again, you own, its not on sale or return, nor can you claim your money back from the supplier, as its second hand no guarantee! Its un sellable, it owes you money, its cost you money to sell it, and now, it cost you £12 -25 to buy in, you cwn just chuck it away then mate. Failed.

Now, you got more stock coming, you still havent paid off the last lot, you work 7 days a week, you cant afford the latest shop fittings, you have no financial backing from head office, you are head offiice, you can't shift some of your stock, you dont have a shop on a major footfall route because, hey this shop was all you could afford, and you got this dribbler in the shop haggling o'er 2 quid.

Theres a shop in norwich, becketts, fantastic new looking shop, new gear, great customer service, always have led zeppelin or deep purple playing in the shop, massive range, proffesional outfit, looks like an army verion of millets, i dont go in often, i just rummage through the old stuff out front lol.

Its a tuff world in retail, I'm glad for now I'm out of it, but those management skills got me a job the defense sector. Awesome. Saturdays off with the family and no haggling. Love it.

Great post.

Sent from my UMI eMAX using Tapatalk

 

[XRV John]

When will people learn to quote properly?

I'm reading this on my phone. Two posts with great long full quotes followed by "I agree" or "great post"

Either put "Bob - I agree" or just quote the relevant point

Rant over!

 

[Macaroon]

What he said above - drives me bonkers when there's multiple quotes of pic - heavy posts!

Easy to tell who's got superfast broadband that works so well they don't need to think about such things, eh?

 

[santaman2000]

(Haggling is for housewives.)

I always haggle - do you do Police discount? Do you do student discount? How about your staff discount then? Round it up less for cash? Sometimes it works sometime it doesn’t.
But if you don’t ask you don’t get!

I'll ask simple questions about a discount; up to a point. I'll ask a bout a Military discount but most departments forbid cops from asking for a police discount (they're allowed to accept said discount, but not to ask for it) And yes, I'll make a lower offer on certain items (particularly autos) but that not quite the same thing as prolonged haggling. I suppose the difference is minute.

 

[santaman2000]

But the problem is that they are often not.

Ignore my working in retail, just think of me (or you) as customers. Would we want to go into a shop which had a window display which was faded and haphazard? Do we want to rummage around for ages trying to find the right size for a jacket? Will we visit a store which is dingy and cramped?....

To be perfectly honest, the best surplus "store" I ever shopped was in Las Vegas. It had no permanent structure of any kind. it was about a half acre with surplus canvas, vehicles, whatever, stacked on pallets or parked in cramped fashion. The clothing and personal equipment was inside various military tents on the grounds and jumbled just as you describe. Frankly that experience is exactly one of the reasons I enjoy shopping surplus stores (they ain't posh retail chains)

 

[Old Bones]

To be perfectly honest, the best surplus "store" I ever shopped was in Las Vegas. It had no permanent structure of any kind. it was about a half acre with surplus canvas, vehicles, whatever, stacked on pallets or parked in cramped fashion. The clothing and personal equipment was inside various military tents on the grounds and jumbled just as you describe. Frankly that experience is exactly one of the reasons I enjoy shopping surplus stores (they ain't posh retail chains)

Sounds great! I have no problem with a good rummage (unlike my wife, I really like rummage sales, flea markets, etc) - but there is only so much time in the day, and not everyone is as tolerant as me. Its the same with second hand book shops - I love them (my wife has long banned me from buying more books). But even I gave up in one North London bookshop years back after about 20 minutes when I was basically excavating piles of books (which was all crud) because the guy running it had simply dumped stuff all around the shop. I love the idea of stumbling across something unexpected, but it shouldn't be too difficult.

Rabbitsmacker - excellent posts. A great (but depressing) outlines of the problems with setting up and running a small retail business, especially a surplus one. Retail is going to take a real battering in the next decade, according to a report I read at work today, perhaps 900,000 fewer people working in retail by 2025. Rents can be a killer (and the lower the rent, the worse the location/footfall, etc), business rates, normal running costs, and any staff you can afford to employ. You really do need a card machine these days (its the cost of doing business) and an internet presence (ditto), but they do cost money. I can see why shop fittings are not always a top priority!

Buying the stock up front is a killer as well. As you say, its often not high margin, it needs grading and much of the stuff may take a long time to shift. Cash flow must be a nightmare. And people do complain about the most trivial things (not something confined to surplus) - if your buying a Grade 2 waterproof, you shouldn't expect too much. Its not surprising that not all surplus shop owners are that chirpy! As customers we want it all - internet prices, free delivery (next day!), exactly what you want when you walk in, great customer service, excellent parking, etc. Something has to give.

Let me also add that military gear is a very specific product with limited appeal, we all love it but its not mainstream products. Its not food or drink, its not consumables, it doesnt wear out very quickly, its not essential kit, its not sports related, it has no branding or advertising drumming up demand, it isn't fashionable in most cases, it isnt high value, it isnt jewellery, it generally excludes female buyers and young buyers, its not pretty or trendy, your mates are all in river island spending their beer tokens on jeans to help pull a fit bird on a saturday, why would you spend the same money on webbing or a pup tent that you may not use! (Im generalising sorry) . Without clever selling it is a tricky product.

Totally agree. Much as I like surplus, very little of it is a 'must have' for me (and the stuff I just want tends to be smuggled in behind my wifes back). I really use very little of it for hiking, DPM camo limits what you can wear and when, and although its often hard-wearing and practical, I must admit that buying a new top or trousers from the High Street or a supermarket may well be cheaper and more useable. The market has changed.

I see what you mean about Becketts (Norwich is way over for me, we sometimes get to Lynn when visiting my wife's parents) - inside it looks like a hiking shop, and stuff is well laid out, etc. And by the looks of it, you can rummage out front! Hoopers looks fine from the outside as well.

I can see exactly why so much surplus is now online only - lower costs and possibly less hassle overall. But thats a shame, because I really like surplus stores - I just want them to attract enough customers to survive.

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

My personal feeling why retail draws less people and holds less people each year in its employ is that more and more people are unwilling to put up with relentless hours on the front line of selling and for very poor pay. Each employer varies massively in the perks, bonuses comissions offered. Small retail works teams hard for long hours for low wage. The hours can be antisocial as well. These features are not isolated to retail, what does seem to be largely retails issue is that after all that abuse from customers, hectic undermanned hours on the floor on show in front of the hoards of customers, after all the hours training behind the scenes, extensive customer relations training (in some case) manic public holidays, after all the various pressures and pleasures of retail, you are considered by all to be an un skilled worker. It is only now being considered to be included in the skilled sector, and a push for other nations to consider it as such to aid emigration.
There are no shortage of people willing to work retail, getting the right people in the right positions is a massive recruitment challenge. Until pay reflects invested time and skills it will always struggle to retain work force. The amount of people who are 'skilled' trades that have said to me "i couldn't do your job" indicates there is a skill involved, people skills in a lot of cases. Its taught me a lot over the years, but I'm very thankful i don't have to do it anymore.

 

[mountainm]

When will people learn to quote properly?

I'm reading this on my phone. Two posts with great long full quotes followed by "I agree" or "great post"

Either put "Bob - I agree" or just quote the relevant point

Rant over!

Great posts!

What he said above - drives me bonkers when there's multiple quotes of pic - heavy posts!

Easy to tell who's got superfast broadband that works so well they don't need to think about such things, eh?

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