Which sleeping bag
- Thread starter Johnnyboy1971
- Start date
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I bought one off this forum, and I'm very impressed with it. It warms up quickly, doesn't get very clingy and goes in the washing machine.
The surplus shop in Sennybridge was selling Carinthia bags last year for £30.
The army arctic will cope with temps lower than -15c.
This video was what persuaded me to get my first Wiggys bag. He makes one mistake though - the Ultima Thule is rated down to -20F, not -20C.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD3wA5Wrcmc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD3wA5Wrcmc
I notice nobody has mentioned a down bag yet - why not? Lighter, more efficent and smaller to pack, and a good one (such as the Rab 500) would both behalf the weight as the Carinithia 4. If you shop around, not even a vast amount more. I'd also look to see what Alpkit have.
If not, then the 203 season MH 20 is on clearance from Blacks for £75. 400g less than the Carinithia, and down to minus 5. The NH Laminia 0 gets you 10 degress lower, and weighs 1700g, and costs £145.
If not, then the 203 season MH 20 is on clearance from Blacks for £75. 400g less than the Carinithia, and down to minus 5. The NH Laminia 0 gets you 10 degress lower, and weighs 1700g, and costs £145.
But any sleeping bag isn't much fun when wet - you simply do your best to keep your bag dry, full stop. And although down isn't cheap, it tends to last longer than synthetic, and of course packs smaller/lighter. This Alpkit bag has a DWR coating, weighs just 790g and costs £150 https://www.alpkit.com/products/pipedream-400 . The Carinithia 4 costs £129. And if your looking at the Carinitha 6, then down certainly has the edge on bulk/weight, but costs are pretty similar for something like the Rab 900.
Interesting that NH have started to use "Lamina" for their bags! Trying to rip off Wiggys Lamilite reputation with an inferior product, because it certainly doesn't use Lamilite. And if you believe their temperature ratings..............good luck
Down is certainly an option, and I like it as well. Have a Velandri which is fine for a light packout in the UK. Certainly packs down small (just don't leave it in a compressed stuffsack for long as you will ruin the loft - I always lay mine flat out of the bag after use). But it is useless when wet. And the more you use it, the more your body oils/sweat gets into the down and lessens its loft. At which stage you can either ruin it by trying to wash it yourself, or spend £40 getting it washed by a specialist. Keep it a few years and the maintenance costs build up.
Or buy a Wiggys, throw it in the washing machine after every trip, keep it for years in a compression sack, and if it loses any loft after 20 years send it back to Wiggys for a free replacement.
You know, you'd think Wiggys would give me a discount when I buy more stuff from him, after all the nice things I say about his gear. But he doesn't, the swine!
I have both a Carinthia Defence 4 and Tropen - I would love a good down bag BUT to get one that was both as good in the temperature range and as good a fit for me ( at 6'5'' ) , the cost would be prohibitive. The 2 bags mentioned cost me a total of £200 brand new. The Mountain Hardware Lamina 20 may be a good bag in itself but it is smaller and comes nowhere near the temp range of the Defence 4, being comfort rated at -2C as opposed to the Defence 4 at -15C. Could they be smaller and lighter? Obviously but all in all I'll take the trade off , having searched for a bag that good for years.
The Wiggy's Ultima Thule looks like a good bag too but I'd probably only buy one if I could get a friend who lives in the US to take it home in his luggage for me - shipping from the US has risen drastically in recent years.
The Wiggy's Ultima Thule looks like a good bag too but I'd probably only buy one if I could get a friend who lives in the US to take it home in his luggage for me - shipping from the US has risen drastically in recent years.
synthetic still insulates to varying degrees when wet. as everyone knows down does not. the 2 layer buffalo system works very well when wet. heavy. expensive for what it is but for damp conditions particularly winter scotland in wet snow an ideal bag if you dont mind taking huge space up in rucksack. saying that there are better options.
To be fair, you wouldn't compare the Lamina 20 to the Defence 4, but the Lamina 0 might be a better fit. Rated minus 12 for comfort level, and 1.7kg. I've had a synthetic bag for a long time, but looking at synthetic v down, the extra weight/bulk of synthetic makes me want to go to something like the Rab 700. DMR and hydrophobic down has gone some way to coping with damp, and prices are not quite as steep as when I bought my synthetic bag.
However, a decent synthetic bag at a good price might sway me (and the price is important, especially when I have to justify a new one to my wife), and the MH series has excellent reviews. Its whatever suits the individual (and comfort/useability is key) , but if you look at the bags reviewed somewhere like Outdoor Lab, the bulk are down, not synthetic http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Best-Backpacking-Sleeping-Bag/ratings
As for Wiggys - I continue to be amazed at the almost cult like following that brand has (and thats not in a good way). If it works for you, great, but its a lot of money for a relatively heavy bag which you can't actually examine before you buy.
I wash my synthetic bag about every 4-5 years, but I use a liner to make sure it stays as clean as possible, etc, and its stored carefully to preserve loft. I'm going to do the same to any decent sleeping bag, down or synthetic.
As for the idea that MH is ripping off 'Wiggys Lamilite reputation with an inferior product', I have no idea if its an inferior product or not (although NH bags seem to have very good reviews across the board), but since relatively few have ever heard of Wiggy's (try and find a review) and its products are not widely sold, whereas I can go to Cotswolds right now and pick up an MH bag off the shelf, I doubt that its part of MH's marketing stratergy.
Try and find a review of a Wiggys bag? You are joking aren't you? Ever heard of the Internet, or youtube? The reason he doesn't appear in magazines reviews is because he sells direct, and refuses to provide sample bags for review - if they want one the magazines have to buy one. And the specialist magazines have a habit of not being too "unkind" on heavy advertisers' products., and not reviewing kit they don't get for free, or advertising revenue from.
Not widely sold? Maybe not in UK, but they sell thousands a year in the USA (despite Wiggy's habit of being somewhat - abrupt -and upsetting just about everyone). He also supplies the rescue services with his Ultima Thule - to quote from his website - The Alaska National Guard, as part of their survival gear, uses the Ultima Thule. The bags are left in the vacuum package until needed. In 1994 the U.S. Navy authorized an Ultima Thule, vacuum packed, as the official survival bag carried by aircraft and ships. In addition, they determined that it actually performed at -35 F.
And: As an example, one of our Ultima Thule sleeping bags was compacted under 20 tons of pressure. It was blister packed in two poly bags the size of 14 1/2" x 9 1/2" x 2 3/4". After four days it was opened and in one hour, without assistance, 90% of its loft returned. A Lamilite insulated sleeping bag is the only synthetic bag ever put through this test that returned to its original loft. Not even a down bag will return to almost original, actually the down bags deteriorate when vacuum packed. It is for this reason that I guarantee my sleeping bags will never lose their loft.
As to weight, the Ultima Thule weighs 5 lb depending on size - (2.2kg) and has a realistic temp rating of -29C. Not as light as a down bag rated to -30C, but at least you can rely on Wiggy's temp ratings. In over 50 years of camping with top of the range sleeping bags, both down and synthetic, they rarely came within 10degrees of their "official" rating.
Pricewise - the ideal bag for the UK temps is the Superlight, rated down to 0F = -18C. Weight 4lbs = 1.8kg. Price - $175 (£117) ((which also includes free delivery in the US and the best camping pillow I've ever used.) Expensive? When you can get it replaced for free if its loft decreases 20 years down the line? No wonder its a huge competitor to MH and others in the USA despite selling only via word of mouth and mail-order (apart from one shop In Alaska). And of course because no other manufacturer in the world will offer Wiggys lifetime guarantee on workmanship and loft. This even extends to the YKK No 10 zip!
I'm glad to hear that you wash your synthetic every 4 years, using a liner to reduce the body oils/sweat that reduce loft. Personally I can't get on with liners, and wash my Wiggys after very trip to keep the loft pristine. Then put it in a compression sack and put it away until the next time.
Why so enthusiastic about Wiggy's gear? Simple. It is, by far and away, the best camping gear - particularly the sleeping bag - I've ever used in over 50 years. And those who know me will confirm that I love new gear, and cost is not a major consideration to acquiring the stuff. Finding somewhere to store it all is another question however! Those who have never used his bags are of course suspicious of its excellence based on word of mouth, and put it down accordingly. (The "I haven't tried it because I don't like it" philosophy.) As far as I'm aware, everyone on this website who has ever tried or owned one have been unanimous in its praise. Maybe we're all in the pay of Wiggys.............(if only!)
Not widely sold? Maybe not in UK, but they sell thousands a year in the USA (despite Wiggy's habit of being somewhat - abrupt -and upsetting just about everyone). He also supplies the rescue services with his Ultima Thule - to quote from his website - The Alaska National Guard, as part of their survival gear, uses the Ultima Thule. The bags are left in the vacuum package until needed. In 1994 the U.S. Navy authorized an Ultima Thule, vacuum packed, as the official survival bag carried by aircraft and ships. In addition, they determined that it actually performed at -35 F.
And: As an example, one of our Ultima Thule sleeping bags was compacted under 20 tons of pressure. It was blister packed in two poly bags the size of 14 1/2" x 9 1/2" x 2 3/4". After four days it was opened and in one hour, without assistance, 90% of its loft returned. A Lamilite insulated sleeping bag is the only synthetic bag ever put through this test that returned to its original loft. Not even a down bag will return to almost original, actually the down bags deteriorate when vacuum packed. It is for this reason that I guarantee my sleeping bags will never lose their loft.
As to weight, the Ultima Thule weighs 5 lb depending on size - (2.2kg) and has a realistic temp rating of -29C. Not as light as a down bag rated to -30C, but at least you can rely on Wiggy's temp ratings. In over 50 years of camping with top of the range sleeping bags, both down and synthetic, they rarely came within 10degrees of their "official" rating.
Pricewise - the ideal bag for the UK temps is the Superlight, rated down to 0F = -18C. Weight 4lbs = 1.8kg. Price - $175 (£117) ((which also includes free delivery in the US and the best camping pillow I've ever used.) Expensive? When you can get it replaced for free if its loft decreases 20 years down the line? No wonder its a huge competitor to MH and others in the USA despite selling only via word of mouth and mail-order (apart from one shop In Alaska). And of course because no other manufacturer in the world will offer Wiggys lifetime guarantee on workmanship and loft. This even extends to the YKK No 10 zip!
I'm glad to hear that you wash your synthetic every 4 years, using a liner to reduce the body oils/sweat that reduce loft. Personally I can't get on with liners, and wash my Wiggys after very trip to keep the loft pristine. Then put it in a compression sack and put it away until the next time.
Why so enthusiastic about Wiggy's gear? Simple. It is, by far and away, the best camping gear - particularly the sleeping bag - I've ever used in over 50 years. And those who know me will confirm that I love new gear, and cost is not a major consideration to acquiring the stuff. Finding somewhere to store it all is another question however! Those who have never used his bags are of course suspicious of its excellence based on word of mouth, and put it down accordingly. (The "I haven't tried it because I don't like it" philosophy.) As far as I'm aware, everyone on this website who has ever tried or owned one have been unanimous in its praise. Maybe we're all in the pay of Wiggys.............(if only!)
When you first mentioned Wiggys some time ago, I did try to find reviews, but all I found were people on forums. etc. There are some reviews, but they tend to be isolated, without context or comparison, and there is no mention of things like EN ratings (I know that its a lab test, but at least it gives some numbers). And although some reviews are very good, not all are. On Trailspace, for instance, there are two very much contrasting reviews:
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/wiggys/sleeping-bag/
The second review uses phrases like 'Fantasy temperature rating' and 'The inner bag was supposed to be warm down to -15°C or so: i froze my bottom of around 0°C.'. The chap complained about the loss of loft - apparently he wasn't impressed about the customer service. You can see how that sort of thing might put people off.
And these are all fairly 'unoffical' - no reviews from the likes of Backpacker Magazine, Outdoor Life, Field & Stream, Outdoors, etc. Yes, I know he doesn't sell in stores, nor sends out ads, test samples, etc, but I'd like something more than 'they are great' from his own website and so bloke on the web/Youtube, etc. The Superlight that you mentioned is $175, plus shipping. So thats £114 plus shipping and whatever Customs want to charge me - for a bag I have hardly seen any reviews for, and have never laid eyes on.
Yes, he sells loads to the US military, but is he really 'a huge competitor to MH and others in the US'. Who knows? I do know that TNF, MH, Kelty, Big Agnes, Marmot, Sea to Summit, Western Mountaineering, etc do sell well to the general public, but unless I see numbers, who can say? But if you dont advertise, and only have two shops and online, your distribution is likely to be a little limited.
If you like his bags, great. And its good to bring that brand to our attention, and if others like them too, thats fine. But for most of us, buying a bag is a bit of a shot in the dark at the best of times, because everybody is different. Buying a bag from a foreign country, from a bloke which even this sympathetic newspaper article points out writes 'online diatribes' and is 'bombastic' http://www.denverpost.com/business/...er-shouts-gospel-lamilite-from-grand-junction with no real reviews, for a fair amount of money, is something most people would think twice about.
And Johnnyboy1971 still doesn't have an answer to his question - but if its a 2-3 season bag, you can do well at the moment for less than £100.
Fine OB. Ignore the views of all on here who have actually used them. We pass on our views about Wiggys bags in the real world and serious sub-zero conditions for consideration to you lot, but what do we know? You are totally entitled to ignore it, preferring to rely on magazine articles lauding the manufacturers who give them free bags and thousands in advertising. However, it is genuinely your loss!
By the way, you don't work for Snugpak or MH, by any chance? - Just checking
By the way, you don't work for Snugpak or MH, by any chance? - Just checking
ironically, I have today just received another "abrupt" email from Wiggy in answer to a query from me about an apparent problem on his website, where the "select width" function on the relevant page wasn't working. My email was polite and friendly, eliciting the following reply
We do not have that size, hence you could not order them.
Jerry Wigutow
President
Wiggy’s Inc.
In fairness, i got a reply on a Saturday within an hour, from the boss himself. But even so, he really needs to put his customer communications with someone trained to do the job!
We do not have that size, hence you could not order them.
Jerry Wigutow
President
Wiggy’s Inc.
In fairness, i got a reply on a Saturday within an hour, from the boss himself. But even so, he really needs to put his customer communications with someone trained to do the job!
Anywhoooo,
A man logs onto a Forum and asks........
John, you can have a try of my Brit Arctic bag at Northwood, I have a pile liner for it as well I'll pack that along too.
A man logs onto a Forum and asks........
John, you can have a try of my Brit Arctic bag at Northwood, I have a pile liner for it as well I'll pack that along too.
