swedish army trangia mess set: aluminium vs stainless steel.

[Andy BB]

Interesting! Yes - absolutely no genuine evidence for issues with aluminium pots - just another of the baseless scare stories that come along year after year.

As far as SS V alu on the Trangia kits, the alu ones are pretty bombproof, much lighter and in my opinion cook much better. And I've yet to see anyone scrub through the bottom of one!

 

[Hammock_man]

the alu ones are pretty bombproof

Had an Ali one for a good while now and its still going strong. Not done any "real" cooking in it but it warms rat packs and does steamed buns a treat. Doesn't need any special care. I have often thought I would like a crusader set but then think this works just fine, why spend the money?

 

[Goatboy]

Best stop buying soft drinks then and beer in cans until they put them in stainless cans.

Though all those cans have a thin coating of plastic on the inside to stop the acidic drink being in prolonged contact with the aluminum.

Sent via smokesignal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[TinkyPete]

I have both stainless and Ali, I have yet to do a load of cooking in the ali version, I have used many ali pots over the years and find no real problem with them. The main thing is not to let the boil dry. My stainless set I love and use it a fair bit and it is my old timer kit ( I know it may not be period to anything) but I like how it works and is bomb proof. The guard part is good if you want to use the meths burner or wood fire and is great for keeping everything from spreading I do need to make a good bag to keep it in because of it's slightly awkward shape but that is no biggy. I have kept the hook on my pot cause i do like to hang it as well over a fire. They are both (stainless and Ali) a good basic and standard pot which you can easily feed one or two out of it.

 

[Dark Horse Dave]

I have both stainless and Ali, I have yet to doa load of cooking in the ali evrsion, I have used many ali pots over the years and find no real problem with them. The amin thing is not to let the boil dry. My stainless set I love and use it a fair bit and it is my old timer kit ( I know it may not be period to anything) but I like how it works and is bomb proof. The guard part is good if you want to use the meths burner or wood fire and is great for keeping everything from spreading I do need to make a good bag to keep it in because of it's slightly awkward shape but that is no biggy. I have kept the hook on my pot cause i do like to hang it as well over a fire. They are both (stainless and Ali) a good basic and standard pot which you can easily feed one or two out of it.

Just on bags, have a look at these. I bought one the other day and think it's good. Under a fiver too. (No connection with seller etc)

 

[vestlenning]

I do need to make a good bag to keep it in because of it's slightly awkward shape but that is no biggy.

A homemade bag is good, made this one yesterday:

 

[bushcraft kid]

hi everyone
so im a scout in the uk and im thinking about buying a Swedish army trangia (stove)
occasionally the odd steel one comes up but is sold very quickly so chances are i will e getting an ali one
but im wondering could you melt the pots if you hang it over a fire? hence why i want a steel one
on hoods uk A.K.A. Military mart sell mainly the ali one but im hoping for them to sell the steel one but
if anyone could send me a link to any other sellers (specifically the steel ones) that would be great

thank's a uk scout

Dan

 

[decorum]

but im wondering could you melt the pots if you hang it over a fire?

Melt ali pots hanging over a normal camp fire? Not a chance.

Have a look at babelfish5 on youtube ~ part 1 says it's ali, but I'll link to part 2 as he uses the set as a Dutch Oven

[video=youtube;gZ9PYa-ArjY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ9PYa-ArjY&list=PLE79F95B2694608E2&i ndex=8[/video]

The tin foil in the lid doesn't protect from damage, it just keeps the inner clean

 

[mountainm]

The Dark Side is strong in this one...

A homemade bag is good, made this one yesterday:

 

[bushcraft kid]

thank you i think im convinced now
im going to get the grade A Ali SAT from military mart now

thank's decorum

Dan

 

[Alan 13~7]

hi Mike, after my lengthy reply you may be sorry you asked, I have both the m~44 (aluminium) & the M~40 (stainless steel) as to which is better, its Horses for courses, there are many different versions of both these sets, I recently bought an m~44 aluminium military mess kit from military Mart (aka Hoods) as advertised:~ "Super Grade unissued."
I chose green. inc postage it was £25 A bit steep I thought, still it's brand new so, OK... When it comes to these wee stoves I am bit of a purist. Setting the standard, I already have a complete 1968 aluminium m~44 kit in green ie:~ the Genuine army issue Kuksa, windshield, burner, mess tins, & even the fuel bottle are all stamped NC68, (& I use it alot) I bought it 2-3 years ago. "Super grade" (not from Hoods) it cost me around £10 I was Hoping for a matching pair....
Anyway my new stove had arrived from Hoods, Here's what they sent....

My initial reaction, I was disappointed.
there were a number of reasons for me to be disappointed....
#1} they had sent me a "not a green one".... ok I could repaint it...
#2} the bottom leading edge of the large pot was slightly deformed probably from being dropped onto a hard surface from a reasonable height, as the damage was not mirrored in the wind shield it had to be pre shipping damage... ok being aluminium I can probably bash the crap out of it & rework its shape back to true. (which I did)
#3} it's not of identical shape, weight or quality of craftsmanship to the one I already have.
#4} the kuksa they sent is a poor modern reproduction & does not compare to the genuine original article, they are not the same size shape or quality & are too small so don't fit properly with the kit as intended.
#5} (being a purist) the stamps that prove that it's the genuine article... the burner & the wind shield are both suitably stamped 3 crowns Svea NC70 I was hoping for a 1960's stove but I can live with 1970 40 plus years old
as for the mess tins they are both stamped with matching numbers:~ 3 crowns & 5294..... hmm.... I am guessing perhaps made in week 52 of 1994 maybe?... my knowledge is flawed at this point, I don't know enough about the markings on these stoves to accurately date these mess tins, they seem to be of a lesser quality compared to my 68 Model but still reasonably good but with poorer workmanship if it were a car it would probably be an Austin Rover I've actually weighed them and there is a discrepancy of 14 grams with my 1968 M~44 being the lighter & it's way more crafted the brackets which hold the bail are more aesthetically pleasing finished to a higher standard with smooth rounded of corners the whole stove has a more rounded look, like a classic car. My 1968 M~44 (The older of the 2 stoves) has more of a feel that it's been hand crafted by a skilled tradesman with high personal standards. Maybe it's just me but for me its the little things that are really big when it comes to quality....

As I said earlier I already have a 1968 green aluminium m~44 & was looking for a matching pair ....
So after carefully scrutinizing pictures on fleaBay, I bought another used m~44 stove, as I was the only bidder excluding postage I got it for £12.99. It was scruffy with chipped paint & was sooty from use but it is of identical shape, weight & quality of craftsmanship to my 1968 m~44, from the pictures I could easily see the three crowns but couldn't make out the date stamps, so paint chips aside no dents or damage it has scrubbed up realy well, but it turns out thats it's actually made up of parts from 3 different kits... so stove & burner are a matching pair both stamped NC70 Svea (1970) perfectly acceptable, The frying pan/lid is stamped HP80(1980) & the large billy is stamped HP83 (1983) Although it's not a perfect example it's an acceptable Match for what I was looking for, & still way better than the hoods heavy metal version M~44 so all in all I'm only a little bit disappointed about the date stamps on the mess tins, but all things considered I'm now 98% happy with this wee stove.... & I have made my money back on the one I got from Hoods by selling it on to a happy chappy on fleaBay, ....
These wee stoves are pretty tough & both the m~44 (aluminium) & the M~40 (stainless steel) remain popular holding their value in the used market....

In answer to your second question I personally don't like the shape of the bail arm on My M~40 & stainless steel is a good bit heavier than aluminium, on the plus side for stainless it's supposed to be easier to clean, that being said my aluminium M~44 has never been difficult to clean & I've never had any issue with stuff sticking, & as I am not likely to be using it over an open fire or as a Dutch oven.... so for my money its aluminium all the way & I say:~ use it
get a stuff sack to keep it & and any other useful related stuff in an S10 gas mask bag, don't abuse it, look after it love it, never pack it away wet or dirty, always drain off the burner light & burnout each time after use before packing away & it will serve you well, money wise it will never be worth or equal to the pleasure you will get from using it.... I run mine on B&Q bio-ethanol, sure the pot will get a bit sooty n blackened, but a quick wipe & light wash, no need to scrub leave the black on as it doesn't transfer to kit its not a problem...

Alan

 

[alistair]

Hi all
as to the question of Ali and health, the question has just been framed wrongly.. I'd much rather have this sort of question... "Does all source exposure of ali lead to an increase of ali within the body"

But if you want specifics..
"While aluminum is a known neurotoxin and occupational exposure to aluminum has been implicated in neurological disease, including Alzheimer's disease, this finding is believed to be the first record of a direct link between Alzheimer's disease and elevated brain aluminum following occupational exposure to the metal.
Within a short time of starting this work the man complained of headaches, tiredness and mouth ulcers. By 1999 he started to show problems in relation to memory and suffered depression.
There then followed the most comprehensive investigation ever of the aluminium content of the frontal lobe of a single individual with 49 different tissue samples being measured for aluminium."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782734/

If this was the first ever comprehensive investigation.. on what were we basing the previous information.??
Why mess with it.. ??

All my gear is steel now, including drinks containers.

 

[tallywhacker]

Alistair

Aluminium is on the earth in abundance, you will not avoid ingestion by not using pots and pans made from it. This is a topic that has been debunked to death.

It doesn't matter that high amounts have been found in a small number of alz patients. That indicates nothing at all.

The consensus is that it is not the cause and there is no study to prove otherwise.

The initial study that was done, from memory, was a dissertation which fell under heavy scrutiny and was rejected by the community due to failure to account for possible contamination from aluminium lab equipment. That's a major flaw. I cannot find the direct link for that though it is referred to on the second to final extract, in bold. The better link i had appears to be lost somewhere in my bookmarks.

Anyhow, this is what science actually agrees:

Aluminum is all around us. As the most abundant metal in the earth’s crust, fully 8 percent of the ground beneath our feet is made up of aluminum. We all consume small amounts of aluminum constantly – in the food we eat, the water we drink and the air we breathe. As a result, the scientific community has explored for decades the potential human health effects of ordinary environmental exposure to aluminum. The mainstream scientific consensus is clear -- there is no evidence that normal day-to-day use of aluminum products – whether in food, cookware, drinking water, deodorant, medicines or cosmetics – causes any adverse health effects. Myth: Exposure to aluminum causes Alzheimer’s Disease Fact: Aluminum is not linked to Alzheimer’s disease, the cause (or causes) of which is unknown. In the words of the Alzheimer’s Association, “The research community is generally convinced that aluminum is not a key risk factor in developing Alzheimer's disease.” The World Health Organization has also concluded that “there is no evidence to support a primary causative role of aluminium in Alzheimer's disease.” - See more at: http://www.aluminum.org/resources/electrical-faqs-and-handbooks/health#sthash.DjslObVd.dpuf

http://www.aluminum.org/resources/electrical-faqs-and-handbooks/health

Myth 4: Drinking out of aluminum cans or cooking in aluminum pots and pans can lead to Alzheimer’s disease.
Reality: During the 1960s and 1970s, aluminum emerged as a possible suspect in Alzheimer’s. This suspicion led to concern about exposure to aluminum through everyday sources such as pots and pans, beverage cans, antacids and antiperspirants. Since then, studies have failed to confirm any role for aluminum in causing Alzheimer’s. Experts today focus on other areas of research, and few believe that everyday sources of aluminum pose any threat.

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp

There is no proof, and the current consensus is that aluminum does not play a major role in the development of Alzheimer's disease. But because the causes of the disorder are not understood at this time, one cannot rule out the possibility that aluminum could play a minor role. In our Center, we do not recommend that people avoid aluminum cooking pans or aluminum-containing antiperspirants or antacids because there is little evidence that such lifestyle changes are helpful. Moreover, it is impossible to avoid ingesting a certain amount of aluminum, which is found naturally in food and water.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-any-proof-that-a/

Aluminum

One of the most publicized and controversial theories concerns aluminum, which became a suspect in Alzheimer's disease when researchers found traces of this metal in the brains of patients with Alzheimer's disease. Many studies since then have either not been able to confirm this finding or have had questionable results.

Aluminum does turn up in higher amounts than normal in some autopsy studies of Alzheimer's patients, but not in all. Further doubt about the importance of aluminum stems from the possibility that the aluminum found in some studies did not all come from the brain tissues being studied. Instead, some could have come from the special substances used in the laboratory to study brain tissue."

http://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/guide/controversial-claims-risk-factors

In the mind of many scientists, if aluminum plays a role it is most probably a secondary one. The reasoning for this position is based on the fact that aluminum is one of the most abundant and pervasive elements. It is found everywhere--it is in the water we drink, it is in the dust we breathe, it is in many of he substances we use every day such as coke in glass bottles, food preservatives, many cosmetics and food dyes. Even if we stop using pots and pans or underarm deodorants, it will be virtually impossible to avoid aluminum. Given this type of exposure of the general population, if aluminum is playing a major role then one would expect the numbers of people affected by Alzheimer's to be much higher than they are found in epidemiological studies.

http://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/guide/controversial-claims-risk-factors

 

[richardhomer]

Melt ali pots hanging over a normal camp fire? Not a chance.

Have a look at babelfish5 on youtube ~ part 1 says it's ali, but I'll link to part 2 as he uses the set as a Dutch Oven

[video=youtube;gZ9PYa-ArjY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ9PYa-ArjY&list=PLE79F95B2694608E2&i ndex=8[/video]

The tin foil in the lid doesn't protect from damage, it just keeps the inner clean

I like the idea of using it like a Dutch Oven , I might give that a go over the summer with the kids

 

[Mastino]

Some data:

Now an overall comparison with the aluminium SA trangia:

- much more robust (it figures)
- the large alumimium pot weighs 300 gr and the little pot 180 gr
- the large steel pot weighs 480 gr and the little pot 300 gr
- the burner and the stand are in both cases 400 gr, the full bottle of meth 200 gr
- I'll do the math for you: complete alu set 1080gr, steel set 1380 gr.

 

[dp0001]

Out of curiousity, why did the Swedes produce both types? Did one replace the other or werer there two envisioned theatres of use?

For myself, just to upset the applecart, I prefer the (aluminium) German system with three pots paint-stripped to nice shiny aluminium with a Swedish hearth thing cobbled to fit and a coke can stove.

 

[Polecatsteve]

I have the alu one and love it. Use it when fishing and the stand makes a great mini wood burner. (Does anneal and go soft but hey ho) Dunk it in the river when it's hot and it hardens again.

If it wasn't for my zebra billy can being so, good...I'd use the trangia all the time. Well designed kit.