Blacks on the blacklist

[JonathanD]

Hiking shoes wearing out in 4 months is a fail in my book.

But they didn't wear out, they showed signs of excessive wear. What determines a refund is if the wear was excessive beyond the use they received. A shop assistant is not allowed to decide what constitutes that wear. Which is why they send them off for independant analysis. But taking it to basics, then your really need to have a rotation with footwear as one pair of shoes worn constantly will not work. The leather will remain wet and it will corrode at a faster rate without any recovery time. You need to rotate shoes and boots to allow them to dry and recover.

 

[British Red]

I have no "dog in this fight". But it may be worth admitting I worked in the footwear retail industry for about 15 years.

Excessive wear is hard to determine. Weeks of ownership is a poor guide to wear. How many hours of wear, what surface they were worn on, the gait and weight of the owner, many other things come into play. Rather like tyres - if you have had them for a few days and raced them, they have had fair wear. If you have had them a few months and driven gently to Asda once a week in a well maintained car, they have not.

If testing is to be done on this footwear, I would suggest you request a SATRA test

http://www.satra.co.uk/portal/

SATRA are independent. If you dispute the retailers verdict, the remedy my firm offered was a SATRA test. The customer paid for the test. If SATRA upheld the complaint, we refunded both the cost of the shoes and the test fee.

If the retailer is offering a free test in house, the option of a SATRA test will still be open to you whatever their conclusion. If it is not a service they provide, you can contact SATRA directly. If SATRA declare the shoes faulty, just go to the small claims court, you will get all your money and costs back.

 

[Blaidd]

How things change. Many years ago I returned a pair of boots to Alpine Sports in London. Admittedly the sole was hanging off the left boot, but the guy behind the counter said "Do you want a cash refund, a credit note or another pair of the same boots". I chose the money and bought what must have been one of the first fleece things by Javelin.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I am finding it very interesting how people are responding to this. For the most part taking very diametrically opposite positions. I emailed blacks customer service, will see how they respond. I just want a pair of shoes that aren't falling apart... But without a 2 week break from walking...

Julia

 

[Lister]

Let's not forgot, while the Sale of Goods Act offers consumers protection and the "refund, repair or replacement" options, refund generally only lasts for 30 days after that is the at the retailers discretion as to whether to offer a repair or replacement, the consumer has no say in this, the only stipulation is that the repair is undertaken within "reasonable time" (generally 28 days).

 

[Shewie]

They'll send them back to a warehouse somewhere, a QC team will give them a once over, if they fail certain criteria they'll likely just send you a replacement pair.

It's fairly common in large retail companies to process returns more carefully these days, we have an entire warehouse complex doing just that. Some of it goes back out, some of it ends up in the staff shop or seconds shops, a lot just gets scrapped and they take it up with the manufacturer.

I hope you get sorted, it sounds like they're duffers and they'll sort you out. I had a pair of Salomon Fastpackers which started leaking after 40 miles, I had to send them back to Field & Trek QC, they wrote them off and sent me a new pair which have been great.

 

[Toddy]

Modern hiking and walking boots are only reckoned good for 1,000 miles. That's it.
HWMBLT walks at least seven and usually nearer 10miles a day. He goes through three pairs of boots or trainers a year. Four or five months is pretty usual life for boots, and they're generally just so 'tired' and worn out that they aren't worth repairing at all.
I hasten to add that he's one of those lean, wiry types, 5'8" and under 10 stones, so it's not a weight thing killing the boots.

I have had no problems with Black's, or Rohan, or the old Millets, or Tiso, so can't comment there, but I wonder if you have taken into account just how little time it needs to walk 1,000 miles. HWMBLT manages it in four months without much effort.

Best of luck sorting things out.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Let's not forgot, while the Sale of Goods Act offers consumers protection and the "refund, repair or replacement" options, refund generally only lasts for 30 days after that is the at the retailers discretion as to whether to offer a repair or replacement, the consumer has no say in this, the only stipulation is that the repair is undertaken within "reasonable time" (generally 28 days).

Nope, not at all. When you purchase an item it is a legal requirement that it lasts a reasonable length of time. How long is reasonable depends on the item. Lithium Ion batteries are 6 months. But something like a washing machine or fridge is expected to last 2 or more years.

I hope you get sorted, it sounds like they're duffers and they'll sort you out. I had a pair of Salomon Fastpackers which started leaking after 40 miles, I had to send them back to Field & Trek QC, they wrote them off and sent me a new pair which have been great.

I perhaps might have been slightly less angry at them if this wasn't the 3rd example of absolute jobsworthness from them since December. They used to give really good service, now I'm just feeling screwed.

It's a shame there are no other alternatives round here.

Julia

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Modern hiking and walking boots are only reckoned good for 1,000 miles.

I wonder if you have taken into account just how little time it needs to walk 1,000 miles. HWMBLT manages it in four months without much effort.

Not currently walking 10+ miles a day, which is what I would need to hit the 1000 miles in 98 days since I bought them. Most days I do around 3-4km. I was walking 10km once a week, and 5km twice a week as well as my normal wandering. But that only lasted a few weeks. Not enough to justify the wear. I did actually work this one out before deciding to take them back.

Julia

 

[Toddy]

I have rheumatoid arthritis, and it's a bit of a b*ggar just now. Moving hurts. Even watching what I eat, I can pile on weight, so I thought to see if I could do the three thousand steps in a day thing....even just walking around the house and garden I manage that easily (I have one of the little clip onto my pocket things that adds it up for me) That added onto his normal 'walk' adds a fair bit to HWMBLT's tally. It's surprising just how much walking we actually do in our daily lives.

I hope you have better luck with Black's this time

cheers,
Toddy

 

[bullterrier]

I appreciate your problem and have had problems with them ( that shop) in the past, albeit a long time ago. Most stores tend to be very cautious/sneaky when it comes to footwear returns, and sticking to you guns is all you can do.
i would like to see a pic of those boots though. And the TNF ones too if you have the time

 

[tiger stacker]

Good luck
Outdoor shoes, trainers boots are designed to last.

 

[feralpig]

I had a few pairs of Apache work boots. First pair didn't last long, second pair was worse, so I changed the model, and they lasted all of three weeks.
Took them back to the builders merchants where I got them, and got the usual "It'll take two weeks" story.
Quick google turns up that Apache boots are made somewhere round Northampton IIRC. Quick phone call and I'm talking to someone who claims to be the managing director.
He must have been pretty important, because a full refund was with the builders merchants within an hour.
Power of the internet. Use it.

 

[Jazz006]

Is it? Who do they send them to? My contract of sale is with the store, not a manufacturer. It's not fit for purpose, so it should be replaced, by them.

They didn't even check their local stock levels.

Julia

No your contract of sale is with the company not the store , and it's only your opinion that they are not first for propose the company also have rights and one of those rights are they are allowed a reasonable amount it time to determine if the goods are faulty and if they are found to be faulty they can REPAIR or replace them at there discretion .

 

[Bucephalas]

I spent £140 on a pair of Sealand boots and whilst i had them for 4 months, they were only worn 4 times b4 the rubber on one split so no longer waterproof.
They wanted them back for inspection too.

Now when i bought two ceiling lights from Argos, they both became faulty within a year and i was told to pay for an electrician to write a report on them b4 they would replace them. I just bought two new ones and using that receipt returned the faulty ones.
Sometimes theres a way around it.

 

[mountainm]

I spent £140 on a pair of Sealand boots and whilst i had them for 4 months, they were only worn 4 times b4 the rubber on one split so no longer waterproof.
They wanted them back for inspection too.

Now when i bought two ceiling lights from Argos, they both became faulty within a year and i was told to pay for an electrician to write a report on them b4 they would replace them. I just bought two new ones and using that receipt returned the faulty ones.
Sometimes theres a way around it.

That's exactly what the inspection is trying to stop people doing - wearing the shoes for a year, buying a new pair - and using the reciept on the old pair a month or so later.

 

[Fraxinus]

I perhaps might have been slightly less angry at them if this wasn't the 3rd example of absolute jobsworthness from them since December. They used to give really good service, now I'm just feeling screwed.

It's a shame there are no other alternatives round here.

Julia

Hence my observations in my previous post, as it stands I will not even buy an OS map from them. Go Outdoors just opened a big store (Wincheap) but I don't have any experience of them or the products they sell.
I had a problem with a bank once and was getting nowhere over the phone so I went on a busy Saturday morning and started to ask to see someone with a raised voice and no queuing up, just stood there demanding to see the manager with everyone looking on, I was ushered into an office pretty quickly but not before all those queuing up had heard how unhappy I was at being given the run around. It got sorted. Just another option available if their HQ are as intractable as the shop staff, heck I might even come along to carry a placard in the Butter Market, summertime all those shoppers and tourists outside the Cathedral Gate...
Excessive wear inside the shoe or outside is, by default,faulty goods. No-one would expect someone to go on a long hike without wearing the footwear for some weeks before travelling! The premature wearing inside could lead to blisters which from my own experience can lead to infection that prevents walking ability or worse. In my case I was prescribed drugs that I was, unknown to me or my doctor, allergic to.
Did your shoes/boots have a tag that said good only for "x" kilometers or "x" hours of use and "by the way buy now get two weeks later" and I am pretty sure they did not say "use them a couple of weeks then come back and pay".
They have not gone without payment so you should not go without the use of what you paid for, the company sold the goods that they deemed suitable as they purchased them from the manufacturer it is up to them to take their supplier to task not make their customer liable for their failings of procurement.

Oh I do get riled don't I... soz Rob.

 

[Goatboy]

One of the things to consider is that the TNF Hedgehog isn't a boot! A lot of you are talking about wear on a boot. The Hedgehog is an approach shoe/lightweight walking trainer. The sole is more akin to a trainer sole with it's dual density construction. It's designed to be lighter and grippier. It's not designed to be durable. Think of it like tyres. The big lugged off road tyres I used on my Landies lasted for ages in all sorts of environments (not sharp flint though!). Whereas the high performance tyres on a F1 car wear out in a few laps; but they grip like billyo.
TFN shoe lasts also tend to encourage pronation which will exaggerate certain types of gait.
Wearing them to the shop is slightly silly as under H&S shops can't be expected to have staff handling sweaty soiled footwear. They should be cleaned and dry before returning them to the store where unless the retailer has preapproved deals with the manufacturer they are entitled to have them sent back for investigation unless it's a very obvious manufacturing fault. Unfortunately Blacks along with a lot of other retailers don't have the cash or will to train their staff up to the standards that some other retailer do which allows them to have staff make those decisions.
I know that cash is tight for everyone at the moment but as others have said shoes will last proportionately a lot longer is they are allowed to rest and rotated. And a lightweight shoe meant for travelling lightly over soft terrain like grass and moor will be absolutely thrashed by tarmacadam seven days a week.
TFN are pretty good and chances are if you give them a chance to look at them they'll replace them FOC for you.
Sorry if I sound like a baddie in all this but I worked in the outdoor retail industry for a long time and headed up a very good customer Service department which did have leeway from most of our manufacturers as we were so well trained. Plus we were prepared to absorb the cost of any mistakes we did make.
Try getting a pair of cheap gutties from Aldi or the likes and take them back and rotate your shoes. It'll make a huge difference.
Good luck with your return and will be interested in hearing in your hopefully successful return. (Plus a picture or two would be good so we could get an idea on what the score was anyway.
All the best,
GB.

 

[Fraxinus]

Sorry GB, but the point is the wear of the inside of the shoe/boot whatever it is. It has nowt to do with the sole, using heels as brakes for motorbikes, racing tyres or owt else.
I said earlier that wearing them to the shop was probably a "faux pas" but if the inside wears out quicker than the sole then there is a problem.....surely inner and outer need to be consistent with each other else what is the point?
If retailers can't or won't train staff to proper standards perhaps we are all better of using those that do or actually give a better standard of customer care/service. Customers make or break them depending on how they are treated, often it is how a company deals with an issue ( I don't like the word problem, it hides the fact there is a solution) that determines how clients regard them.

Take DD Hammocks as an example, I had my hammock for a good three months before I had a chance to use it, to find that the zip on one side was missing the zipper.( I should have examined it more thoroughly really, my bad) I rang them and we arranged for me to return it, I suggested sending just the hammock not the rest of the bits it came with to save postage and received a replacement and my postage costs with no thought of argument. DD Hammocks are a company I will buy from again and more to the point talk about in positive ways. It is how I treat my clients and I expect to be treated that way too. I believe Julia has a real point with this issue, I am kind of liking that on the big wide web many comments are being made about that company's lack of interest in customer opinion/issues, that stuff hangs around forever in the ether net (tag words work well too like problem with Blacks dot co dot uk Outdoors/Camping)

Also if something is proven to be faulty why should you accept a replacement or repair when the original is not up to standard, sounds daft to me.

 

[santaman2000]

Sorry GB, but the point is the wear of the inside of the shoe/boot whatever it is. It has nowt to do with the sole, using heels as brakes for motorbikes, racing tyres or owt else.
I said earlier that wearing them to the shop was probably a "faux pas" but if the inside wears out quicker than the sole then there is a problem.....surely inner and outer need to be consistent with each other else what is the point?.....

And the wear inside the shoe just might be caused by foot problems rather than shoe defect.