Dog Attack

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saw this today while out on the downs.
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BorderReiver

Full Member
Mar 31, 2004
2,693
16
Norfolk U.K.
People don't realise that the family pooch is quite capable of this "natural" behaviour.

"He wouldn't hurt a fly" is the all too common mindless reaction. :(
 

shona

Tenderfoot
Sep 10, 2004
88
0
Scotland
This really makes me angry - some people just don't deserve to have dogs. It is the owner at fault here, not the dog - it is just acting on instinct, chasing something that runs away.

Incidents like this (understandably) upset farmers and can make them hostile towards sensible dogs + owners traversing their land. Bad news all round. :(
 

Adi

Nomad
Dec 29, 2004
339
5
Are farmers still aloud to shoot dogs that a worrying sheep. It used to make me laugh the owners would say "why, you cant do that" and would get quite aggressive about it but it was fine for there pets to rip our livestock apart.
 

shona

Tenderfoot
Sep 10, 2004
88
0
Scotland
I believe so Adi, the sheep farmer up the road from me is protective of his flock and has shot dogs on his land recently, even though they haven't been chasing the sheep. He has lost a few lambs in the past.
 

Abbe Osram

Native
Nov 8, 2004
1,402
22
61
Sweden
milzart.blogspot.com
One never knows what you trigger in a person even if you think you are right.
Here in the Torneå area in Sweden a reindeer farmer shot a dog which was chasing his herd. Then the dogs owner came and shot the reindeer farmer dead.

I guess the reindeer farmer didnt see that coming. I got more careful what I trigger in people you never know which devil is coming out.

Be carefull
cheers
Abbe
 

Razorstrop

Nomad
Oct 1, 2005
314
6
North West
Food for thought, a couple of foxes did a number on the sheep, the stupid family pooch found the body and got stuck in. I dont think it says the 'witness' saw the dog killing the sheep ?

Things arent always as they first seem

Mr Strop
 

Lurch

Native
Aug 9, 2004
1,879
8
52
Cumberland
www.lakelandbushcraft.co.uk
Adi Fiddler said:
Are farmers still aloud to shoot dogs that a worrying sheep.

Absolutely.
What's more they don't have to be actually in the act of 'worrying'. They can have been in the field out of human control (even if the owner is there) or be found en route to a flock or on the way back home.

Razor, I'm not sure of your background, so sorry if I come across patronizing, but your scenario is unlikely in the extreme. Foxes rarely (not unheard of but rarely) work in pairs and generally do not take on a grown sheep - they usually come off second best in this situation. The chances of this dog happening across this are virtually zero.
A dog killed sheep is not usually eaten in any way by the dog, throat ripping in this manner is the MO of the dog kill.
 

Razorstrop

Nomad
Oct 1, 2005
314
6
North West
I take your point Lurch, so what about sick injured sheep, fox attacks?
Or what about sheep died and dog came upon it??

Am not saying the dog didnt do it, but then again, neither is the 'witness'.

Mr Strop
 

Adi

Nomad
Dec 29, 2004
339
5
Lurch has described it all very well but i will add a dog will not or is unlikely to rip the throat out of a sheep if it is already dead. The dog is just likely going to roll on the carcass and bite and pull at the limbs. If the dog is hungry it is going to rip off a limb or any lose flappy areas such as lips and ears or rip into the anus or urinary tracked of the animal.
 

Lurch

Native
Aug 9, 2004
1,879
8
52
Cumberland
www.lakelandbushcraft.co.uk
Well we could debate what 'could' have happened all day of course, but the gist of the sign reads to me to say that the witness found the dog in the field in the act of 'worrying' i.e. chasing the sheep and subsequently found the dead animal.
This would imply that the dog has had one kill and was looking for another (they do it for the excitment of the chase not for the food).

Whilst sheep like nothing better than a good death, a dead sheep doesn't bleed quite like a killed sheep. Again the chances of a fox kill aren't high even with a sick one, you'd be talking about a sheep that was completely immobile and in this case the fox almost certainly would not go for a throat kill - it would start on the animals underbelly or back end.

Sorry friend, from what we know of the incident and the modus operandi of fox and dog I reckon we have enough for a safe conviction of the dog.
 

scanker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 15, 2005
2,326
24
52
Cardiff, South Wales
All this talk and no-one has mentioned the possibility of suicide. The sheep might have done itself in. Come on, prove to me the sheep didn't do it itself! :lmao:

The poster did say that the dog was in the act of worrying the sheep though. Not exactly sure how to interpret that, but that's what it says.

It also says that the dog would have had large amounts of blood on it. Again, I'm unsure as to whether the witness has stated that the dog had lots of blood on it, or it has been inferred from the fact there was a gory dead sheep and a dog in the act of "worrying". It's a good word, "worrying". I digress.

It is somewhat inconclusive, but I presume that if the farmer was there instead of the witness, he would have been within his rights to shoot the dog.

Can someone clarify something for me? Is it only the farmer (as in owner of said sheep) that has the right to shoot the dog?
 

Topcat02

Settler
Aug 9, 2005
608
2
56
Dymock, Gloucestershire
Being surrounded by sheep, foxes, and quite a few dogs, I would be very surprised if a fox took on anything bigger than a newly born lamb. The foxes I have seen skulk along the edges of the field, watched by the sheep who flock together and keep a very attentive eye on it.

My neighbour had a juvenile GSD, and he was always escaping from the garden to chase sheep around a neighboring field. Unfortunately she had to give him away before there were any casualties.

I have a border collie, but he has no interest in sheep whatsoever, he is well known by the local farmers, and blithely wanders through the fields completely oblivious to sheep, cows or horses. However should he spot a stick, now thats a different matter altogether.

My gut feeling is that the dog was responsible, although a bit of forensics might be required to tie the suspect to the scene of the crime.
 

fiacha

Tenderfoot
Feb 7, 2005
81
1
48
Dublin, Ireland
i don't think how the sheep died is the issue.

the dog should not have been loose to begin with. the next dog seen in that field is likely to be on the wrong end of the .223.

even if the good samaritan pooch was attemping CPR on the striken ewe when spotted by the "witness", the farmer is now going to have a zero tolerance policy with strays.
 
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British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,709
1,947
Mercia
fiacha said:
i don't think how the sheep died is the issue.

the dog should not have been loose to begin with. the next dog seen in that field is likely to be on the wrong end of the .223.

even if the good samaritan pooch was attemping CPR on the striken ewe when spotted by the "witness", the farmer is now going to have a zero tolerance policy with strays.
Thanks goodness for some common sense (and yours too Lurch - as always ;) ).

Anoyone whose dog is not on a lead, under close control when in an area with livestock, should understand that the farmer is completely within their rights to destroy the animal. I have seen a dog "worrying" ewes . The owner was horrified when the farm manager shot the dog which "was only chasing them - it didn't bite them". The ewes were in lamb and miscarrying!

I have also seen a game keeper threaten to shoot a dog "chasing pheasants". The dog was chasing them off the shoot land and costing the land owner a fortune again! In my view any owner with a dog not under full control on farm land should expect to have their dog destroyed. They are placing someone elses living, home and the future of their children in jeopardy. Farming is a precarious enough business without idots who can't control their "pets". On farm land, dog walker must keep them on a lead - they have no idea where beasts may be and they are there to walk a path - not to have free reign to cost the landowner his living!

Red
 

Lurch

Native
Aug 9, 2004
1,879
8
52
Cumberland
www.lakelandbushcraft.co.uk
scanker said:
Can someone clarify something for me? Is it only the farmer (as in owner of said sheep) that has the right to shoot the dog?

Can be anyone acting for the farmer provided they have authority to shoot on the land and appropriate provision on their firearms licence. (not applicable for shotgun)
i.e. should my brother ring me and tell me there is a sheep worrier and I should go and sort it I can because I have the appropriate conditions and authority. Should I see one worrying in another farmer's field then I cannot as I would be commiting armed trespass and not acting as the farmer's agent.
 

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