Another idiot putting other people at risk..

[dwardo]

It always makes me chuckle the way MR try to put it nicely when they comment
"The operation, described as "very much avoidable"

If only they could say what they really thought,.

 

[Ed Edwards]

When I was Serving at RAF Lossiemouth we had D Flight 202 SAR Sqn there. As an explosives guy I used to sort out their Pyros and cable cutter carts. Anyway, I remember after being rescued myself from a military ship in the Moray Firth that was in a spot of bother. When we were chatting back in the hanger they mentioned that people they rescued were 'asked' if they would make a donation, especially the 'jeans and flip flop brigade' as they were called.

Just as you wear a helmet and leathers on a motorbike, swimming trunks in the pool and put sunscreen on when on holiday, it's surely an individuals responsibility to dress appropriately wherever they are. Anyone that doesn't really isn't going to have a positive influence on the gene pool... Accidents aside, my sympathy is distinctly lacking.

 

[Bluffer]

To be fair, MRT statistics consistently show that young fit well-equipped males are generally the type who are rescued/recovered.

The ill-equipped and poorly dressed and unfit generally do not get into a rescue situation because they tend not to overcommit or go too high.

The media will always highlight the exceptional cases, so I think it is important to seek out the facts in order to get this story in context.

 

[W0lf]

I would agree that he clearly was ignorant of his risks he was taking. To call him an idiot and ask for punishment feels a tad heavy. We all are ignorant of something plus a lot of us take calculated risks which most of the time turn out to be okay. Should you punish people for taking risks even if they are ignorant of them and they never get realised?? Gee. Think of all the fines! Or is it the case that he should be fined because his risk taking didn't pay off?


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[The Ratcatcher]

Having spent many years out in the countryside, and witnessed all sorts of strange behaviour, what really worries me is that these people aren't actually stupid. We who are outdoors people seem to assume that everybody has a basic knowledge of the outdoors, the sort of stuff we have "always" known, and "everybody" knows.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of the population, who spend almost all of their lives in urban areas, don't know these things. Their knowledge of the countryside is limited to what they see on TV, or read in the odd newspaper holiday article or tourist brochure, and they think the outdoors is a sort of Emmerdale-styled theme park.

There are plenty of people, mainly young, who do not associate "food" with the countryside and "farming". Meat is something that comes in plastic packets from the supermarket, just like any other manufactured product, and is thought of as such. The link between "pig" and "bacon" is something they don't understand, or prefer not to think about because it's messy and "nasty".

To most kids, a farm is a place you visit on a school trip, and see cuddly little lambs and cute little piglets, not an open air food factory. My eight year old was the only one in his class who knew that milk comes from cows, not Asda. He was also the only one who had actually seen a live fox in the wild. The rest of the class knew absolutely nothing about the countryside, and a couple actually thought "Wind in the Willows" was a true story.

The real problem is that these people aren't stupid, but have a totally false impression of what to expect in the countryside, and when the main source of information is wildlife documentaries and the odd tourist board advert, can we really be surprised?

Alan

 

[Robmc]

Start handing out fines, and then you will get some very grey areas of what is and what isn't appropriate clothing and equipment. Whilst I believe he has been foolish, he probably doesn't appreciate conditions on a mountain, just as many others would not know about swimming and rip-tides etc etc.

 

[Limaed]

At the very least they should incur the costs of the volunteer rescue teams; the RAF do it for a living.

Actually that's not quite true. The RAF Search & Rescue Force & the RAF Mountain Rescue Service (MRS) exist to rescue downed airman and carry out initial APCM (Aircraft Post Crash Management)duties. Fortunately fewer aircraft crash these days then in times gone by so the military assist the Police under MACC (Military Aid to Civil Contingencies) or as it's sometimes called UK Resilience. These real operations are far more demanding then any exercise so provide ideal training for the paid task.
The RAF MRS is totally staffed by volunteers (a percentage of whom work out of trade to keep the teams running) who have other 'day' jobs within the RAF.

It's worth remembering that about a third of all MR callouts are not mountain jobs. The teams deal with pretty much anything outdoors that require equipped trained manpower. This could be anything from a search for a missing child to floods & freak storms.

I would agree that the man was if not neglectful at least ignorant but no more so than someone who ends up in hospital after getting drunk. It's very difficult to decide who is at fault hence the reason the MRT's are reserved with any criticism. It's usually the Police that give people a b******ing!

The UK has a very effective voluntary & professional SAR organisation and both the government & the public should be grateful it exists and costs so little. Once you start down the route of insurance & fines you run the risk of jeopardising the freedom we hold so dearly

 

[Robmc]

Excellently put Ratcatcher!

 

[Stringmaker]

This could be anything from a search for a missing child to floods & freak storms.

I would agree that the man was if not neglectful at least ignorant but no more so than someone who ends up in hospital after getting drunk.

I would have to disagree with that point.

To use your example, going out and getting drunk and then maybe tripping up a kerb and hitting your head can be viewed as an accident. Getting drunk on its own (and of course there are degrees of drunk) does not lead to the high likelihood of falling up a kerb.

Walking up a mountain in January in that kind of weather with jeans and trainers carries a much higher likelihood of danger/inury/death; he didn't end up there by accident. It would have taken a good couple of hours at least to physically get to the location where he was rescued and at no point did it occur to him not to continue? There is a world of difference between a properly dressed and equipped walker who trips and this guy.

I take your point in your initial correction; I didn't put it well but what I meant was that we have a SAR function in the RAF which comes out to help civilians, as opposed to the volunteers in the MR team. One set of people are paid, the others aren't.

 

[mrcharly]

All approaches to the mountain have signs up telling people to wear sensible clothing. Idiots can't be told, however.

 

[boatman]

Lets patronise everyone who isn't as outdoorsy as us shall we? There, feel better now?

Any Policeman who actually did give a member of the public a b......ing should be reported. Not their function, if it ever happens.

One possibility of the incident was that he took an upward path and kept going because walking down was more difficult because it was slippery or whatever. Human nature to keep going in the hope it gets better.

 

[Tony]

Ok guys, accusations, snippy remarks etc aren't needed, lets all be friendly and keep things a bit lighter toned please...

 

[Damascus]

Just curious what's a b.......ing from police should be reported?

 

[boatman]

May I respectfully suggest that the very title of the topic prejudged the issue? "idiot" is hardly a Parliamentary term and invited polarised opinions.

 

[santaman2000]

May I respectfully suggest that the very title of the topic prejudged the issue? "idiot" is hardly a Parliamentary term and invited polarised opinions.

And the article just says he was wearing jens. No mention at all wether he had on thermals under said jeans. People tend to assume much, especially those who report these things.

 

[Robmc]

And the article just says he was wearing jens. No mention at all wether he had on thermals under said jeans. People tend to assume much, especially those who report these things.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

 

[Bluffer]

Very well put Limaed

(Post 27)

 

[Limaed]

Very well put Limaed

(Post 27)

Thanks!

I doubt the chap intended to get lost and is probably very embarrassed that he ended up in such a predicament. It's interesting that experienced mountaineers generally don't attract the same media 'criticism' when they have accidents. Mountaineering is a sport that attracts risk takers to a greater or lesser degree - that's one of the attractions to it. Is an experienced climber who gets hurt because he refused to back off a climb any less neglectful than this chap? IMO it's very hard to decide.

The overriding concern of the MRT's is the welfare of others in danger and not to act as mountain police. A lot of rescuers themselves have had 'epics' & near misses often through lack of good judgement or experience. The countryside should be free to all unfortunately with that comes the fact that people will make mistakes and at times be negligent to themselves and others.

 

[Jonbodthethird]

Call it natural selection - leave 'em to it.

Nice! Lol!


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[Jonbodthethird]

People aren't used to being in extreme territory anymore. It's just ignorance and lack of knowledge and understanding.


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