Being sensible ? Carbon monoxide and Methanol

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lannyman8

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 18, 2009
4,005
3
Dark side of the Moon
Just to let all people in the UK know, it is illegal to us Methanol as a fuel unless the relevant tax has been payed, so least said the better....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:;);););););)
 

resnikov

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Should be able to, there's 500 twostroke motocrossers converted to hillclimbers that run on alky. If I remember right they need jets about twice the size to allow more fuel to flow but its got better knock resistance so can stand more ignition advance.

A while ago I spoke to a bloke who ran his hillclimber on methanol, he said that he knew when it was the good stuff cos it tasted like battery acid when he put a tiny drop on his tongue.

So, not only was he taste testing methanol, but he got to compare it to battery acid, and they say hillclimb racers are mental eh?

My old chemistry teacher could tell you what all the major acids and alkalines we used tasted of. They used to use a mouth pippet. We had it easy with the modern kit.
 

rg598

Native
Just to let all people in the UK know, it is illegal to us Methanol as a fuel unless the relevant tax has been payed, so least said the better....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:;);););););)

Just for reference purposes, do you have a source for that? I know you had to pay a tax if you were going to use methanol to produce biodiesel, which was then lifted in 2007 for production of up to certain number of liters per year, and I am not sure if the tax was returned, but I though it was inapplicable to just methanol, and certainly inapplicable to any use in non motorized engines. I've lost track however, and would love to see the current state of taxation. Thanks.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,691
710
-------------
Just to let all people in the UK know, it is illegal to us Methanol as a fuel unless the relevant tax has been payed, so least said the better....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:;);););););)

Anyone I know of that uses it only use it specifically for racing. which by its very nature isn't on the roads.
Plus they have to flush the fuel system out after its been used and not leave it in there. Its not kind on crank bearings, carburettors, even fuel tanks in some cases.

The people who use it for biodiesel production often boil it off, condense it and recycle it from what I've heard.
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,422
614
Knowhere
I'd never thought about common or garden "meths" being hazardous unless you drink it, but I decided to take a look on the bottle, it is plastered with small print such as "possible risk of irreversible effects through inhalation, contact with skin and if swallowed" I guess my insides have turned to formaldehyde by now, because I have never worried before about spilling it on me, indeed I have used it to clean my hands, (and I have used white spirit for the same purposes too, and I suspect that is even worse stuff) I do believe though that the classic phrase is "the dose makes the poison" because I have heard of people dying from drinking too much water.

Meths it seems (or at least the stuff I buy) is still made from ethanol adulterated with methanol. I wonder if the warning is somewhat overkill though as the proportion of methanol you actually come into contact with has to be rather small if you spill it on yourself and the biggest risk is surely of setting fire to yourself before anything else.
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
Dave, reference to drinking and washing in fuel is a bit of a disclaimer for the age of litigation we live in...just because someone has a computer does not make them the sharpest pencils in the box sort of thing;)
 

myotis

Full Member
Apr 28, 2008
837
1
Somerset, UK.
This thread's kinda strange. So many folks have commented on the dangers of drinking or bathing in these fuels. Its..odd. :dunno:

Richard may well be right about the litigation, but it may also be because unlike petrol or parafin, people do drink and wash in methanol, and that is where the real health risks lie.

It is a degreasant and was used to clean/wash face and hands every day by trades like painters. This is one if the trades where long term toxic effects from methanol use has been recorded, both from skin exposure to methanol and inhalation of the fumes when painting in confined spaces.

it is also mixed with ethanol to make cheap booze, either for personal use or for sale. On the telly last night, there was a thing about fake vodka being sold which had high levels of methanol in it. So people do drink the stuff, either intentionally or accidentally.


As has been mentioned in the thread, its drinking more than about 80 ml of methanol that will kill you, and the regular and persistent exposure on the skin could also kill you. Obviously smaller quantities, even if they don't kill you don't do you any good.

So unless you start washing or drinking methanol, from a stove point of view the risks are't any different from using petrol or parafin. In some respects it might be more dangerous, and in other respects, less dangerous, but on balance its pretty well the same in terms of how you should manage the risks of using it.

Hence, I think, the references to drinking and bathing.

cheers,

Graham
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
Richard may well be right about the litigation, but it may also be because unlike petrol or parafin, people do drink and wash in methanol.....

Read back upthread. Mechanics have (and some still do) use gasoline (petrol) and kerosene (paraffin) as degreasers and hand wash. And who hasn't gotten a mouthful when siphoning?
 

myotis

Full Member
Apr 28, 2008
837
1
Somerset, UK.
Read back upthread. Mechanics have (and some still do) use gasoline (petrol) and kerosene (paraffin) as degreasers and hand wash. And who hasn't gotten a mouthful when siphoning?

Right enough, and that does emphasise the skin absorbtiion issue with methanol. Personally, I have never siphoned off fuel using my mouth to start it, but I know of people who do.

Cheers,

graham
 

feralpig

Forager
Aug 6, 2013
183
1
Mid Wales
I've syphoned all sorts, and got a mouthful of it. I swallowed half a mouthful of heating oil once. That will loosen ya guts up a bit..........
Never syphoned methanol like that though.
 

Jonbodthethird

Settler
Sep 5, 2013
548
0
Kettering/Stilton
Do you know what!! How about everyone stops and thinks... Who gives a flying pig proverbial who uses fuel for what reason!! It's absolutely ridiculous to carry this on for six pages!! It's just playground behaviour to sit and jabber on about this! It's just like my rifle, a massively dangerous implement and created as a weapon of death! I've never hurt anyone or my self (mainly because I have common sense and intelligence) and as far as I'm concerned if anyone doesn't process enough of these two factors and causes them selves harm then look at it as natures way of controlling the masses! I don't mind a bit of debating but it's getting really mambi pambi girly chit chat now! Who gives a stuff!! I don't!!


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rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
I'm a user of common sense, sadly some others are not it seems. I've firearms too but you need to be very careful or you could end up killing a bunny rabbit.
 

Jonbodthethird

Settler
Sep 5, 2013
548
0
Kettering/Stilton
As far as I'm concerned you use what you want buddy. If your common sense dictates that you use a well ventilated area in the weather conditions your in by all means do what makes you feel comfortable because, after all enjoying bushcraft obviously means the use of common sense and a bit of savvy is a factor you must have to be able to survive reasonable time outside. End of conversation for me!!


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