North

[merrygold85]

Heyo,

I was just wondering what people's ideas were on the best way to find north on a cloudy night? Or maybe not cloudy, maybe it's raining blood or something, but either way you can't see the stars and you have no compass or watch.

 

[tim_n]

GPS/Smartphone?

Or...

Bowl, leaf, water, needle. Magnetise needle (rubbing it against something to generate static or stroking on a magnet (you may have a magnet in a modern jacket, my bike jacket has one in it, or maybe a catch on some of your gear? worse come to worse, hit it with something iron)

Needle goes on leaf, leaf goes into bowl on top of water. One of the directions point north.

Moss on trees seems a bit unreliable to me.

Also Iceland spar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstone_(medieval)

 

[Wayland]

I've always got a compass on me of some kind.

If not I'd wait for the sun to rise and get some sleep before setting out.

 

[Mouse040]

Other than its stupid to try to navigate at night without the right provisions as the risk outweighs the reward even in a survival situation

Other then the definite stupid replys you will get from the sarcastic members like phone apps and so on I think this is quite a good topic so here's my suggestions I haven't added Tim_n's ideas as it seems pointless to repeat

Cresant moon ,by taking a line between the horns of the moon and take the line to the land that gives you a good indication to south

In bigger pine forests more like the ones over the pond the trees tend to have two thirds of the branches on the north side of the trunk


On mountainous regions the south slopes tend to have more vegetation and the north slopes more arid and bare

Taking a intersection of where the moon rises and falls ,word also with the sun obviously



As regards to the north helping if you are lost it will only help if you have a goal rule of thumb is to ensure you walk in a strait line by picking markers and sticking to them until finding a land mark of relevance

 

[copper_head]

I was always told that comms satellites track west to east in order to keep geosynchronous orbit... But well if its clear enough to see satellites then polaris is your best bet (so Im no help at all ).

 

[Goatboy]

Predominant winds, shape of trees, the old growth of moss on some trees, in the UK, Sky satellite dishes point approximately South-South-West.

 

[petrochemicals]

having a brief think, there are gravitational and rotational factors of the earth that may be some use. Gyroscopic effects may work and water through a hole rotates differently north and south, whether there's anything you can figure out ?

 

[david1]

Heyo,

I was just wondering what people's ideas were on the best way to find north on a cloudy night? Or maybe not cloudy, maybe it's raining blood or something, but either way you can't see the stars and you have no compass or watch.

moss on trees but how did you lose your compass

 

[The Ratcatcher]

As a former military Nav instructor, I'll go with Wayland on this one.

Alan

 

[John Fenna]

Another one with Wayland here ... unless you know the ground forms in your area or have a map that shows your location clearly. Then just follow the map. "Hand-railing" on linear features is easy enough even in the dark and if you can see on the map that a linear feature lies on a particular axis then figuring out North from that is easy-peasy
I could pinpoint navigate just using a map years before I learned to use a compass

 

[merrygold85]

Cool, thanks for the replies people. You are all so wise

 

[PDA1]

I would say that it would be quite Darwinian to go into any back country, wilderness, or mountainous region, particularly in UK uplands where visibility usually disappears when the ever present clouds descend, without the "ten essentials" . These include map and compass (and the knowledge to use them). Anyone stupid enough to be so ill prepared deserves all they get.

 

[mountainm]

I would say that it would be quite Darwinian to go into any back country, wilderness, or mountainous region, particularly in UK uplands where visibility usually disappears when the ever present clouds descend, without the "ten essentials" . These include map and compass (and the knowledge to use them). Anyone stupid enough to be so ill prepared deserves all they get.

Misses the point of the question I feel. I think he's not looking for reasons to go without a compass. But rather natural ways to navigate.

 

[wingstoo]

Well I would have opened my SAS survival tin and got the button compass out of there or maybe a magnetised needle, but I have been told many times by many bush crafters that the tin is a waste of time, so stopped taking mine with me...So if an emergency move required I would try to remember where the sun set the night before, which was most likely in the West, and work it out from there. but not sure I would trust myself not to wander off course in the dark with no artificial means of keeping on track, even a map without a definitive way of proving north can be a problem to follow over open country. So if in doubt and no real reason to be moving at night I would bivvy down for the night and get a fresh start in the morning.

 

[carabao]

There is a guy that had a tv programme (not sure what it was called) he was called Tristan who took celebrities and taught then made them navigate across country only using natures indicators. I bought his book called the Natural Navigator, I used to tab from A to B and not think too much along the way, after reading his book made me take in more as I tabbed along. I get your question, one thing that I notice from his knowledge that the wind predominately blows in from the S.W in the U.K. so trees may be bending in away from that direction and pointing to N.E (not explained we'll sorry)
My drills in a lost situation, get a brew on and relax, then tackle problem. As for not having a compass S&@€ happens, Murphy rocks up and all your prep and back up plans go skywards so what do you do?

 

[rik_uk3]

Well I would have opened my SAS survival tin and got the button compass out of there or maybe a magnetised needle, but I have been told many times by many bush crafters that the tin is a waste of time, so stopped taking mine with me...So if an emergency move required I would try to remember where the sun set the night before, which was most likely in the West, and work it out from there. but not sure I would trust myself not to wander off course in the dark with no artificial means of keeping on track, even a map without a definitive way of proving north can be a problem to follow over open country. So if in doubt and no real reason to be moving at night I would bivvy down for the night and get a fresh start in the morning.

The OP said they had no compass which I presume would mean they did not carry a baccy tin of treasures with them either

I'd use my phone compass and GPS or the button compass on my match safe but yes, without compass or phone sit it out till morning. Never rely on moss to give direction, its just not reliable.

 

[Gray]

I've got a compass watch, but as said you should sit it out and wait for stars, moon (shadow stick. Did you know you can use the shadowstick method in moonlight) or the sun. You'll end up walking in circles otherwise or similar. During daylight i would always pick out a landmark that you can see at night like a mountain either N,S,E or W. failing that lay some rocks out or sticks or scrape a direction indicator in the soil (arrow) before it gets dark. It will give you a head start but pretty soon you would still need direction aids to make sure you haven't strayed.

 

[mrcharly]

What is the point in knowing the location of north if you don't know the location of anything else?

Even on a cloudy night, in the UK you can nearly always pickup the glow of a city on the horizon. Use that to orient your map or give you a consistent direction.

No city lights, say you are out in the desert? I'd hope that you took notice of the surroundings. There are very few places in the world where there aren't consistent patterns (prevailing winds bending trees or drifting dunes).

Truly dense forest (or jungle I guess; I have no experience of jungle) is very difficult. Even a compass is of little use because you can't walk in a straight line. Far better to find a watercourse and navigate by keeping an eye on that (which could be by contouring on hills above the watercourse).

 

[Gray]

As Mr Charly says the best way in dense forest or jungle is using a method called Dead Reckoning where you keep picking landmarks (trees) and walking straight to them. This stops you walking in circles, you will eventually find a watercourse to follow and where theres water, theres people.

 

[mrcharly]

I think I should expand a bit on my description. I'm not advocating following a watercourse next to the water. There is terrain where that can get you into serious trouble (swamps, ravines). I'm suggesting using the line of the watercourse (usually discernible) as a navigation guide from a distance. It's a navigation guide, not a route.