Any SLR (Self Loading Rifle) enthusiasts?

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Jul 12, 2012
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Liverpool
No they never were and still are not self cleaning. In fact the early ones often malfunctioned due to carbon buildup from there need to be extensively and frequently cleaned. Add to that the fact that cleaning kits weren't issued until weeks or even months after the weapon was. A lot of the problem was alleviated when they began chroming the chambers but they still need regular cleaning.

Sorry thats what I mean by fluff they where billed to soldier as self cleaning i.e. not needing any regular maintenance it lead to lots of needless deaths early in nam.

Sorry for the confusion, Fluff is a Gamer (RPG REAL RPG not PC game) for the story / back setting of a game or alike Crunch is the rules / realisim of a game, both tend to get over used my bad for not clearing up the useadge
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Sorry thats what I mean by fluff they where billed to soldier as self cleaning i.e. not needing any regular maintenance it lead to lots of needless deaths early in nam.

Sorry for the confusion, Fluff is a Gamer (RPG REAL RPG not PC game) for the story / back setting of a game or alike Crunch is the rules / realisim of a game, both tend to get over used my bad for not clearing up the useadge

Sorry for the confusion. That said, they were never taught that it was self cleaning either. Regular and thorough was always stressed as far as I can get from the older vets and the documentaries.

Saddly they've been searching for a replacement platform for 15-20 years but don't seem to be any nearer one now than when they began. Although the basic platform of the M4 version today is vastly evolved from the original.
 

Rabbitsmacker

Settler
Nov 23, 2008
951
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41
Kings Lynn
Agreed, I dont know anyone who has broken a bayonet either.
I've seen a sa80 bayonet broken off 2 inches up from the hilt, it was a documentary of basic training of a unit I can't remember and they had an instructor following a recruit up a shallow river/stream, shooting and bayoneting 'enemy' and one recruit jabbed so aggressively that it snapped the bayonet clean off, still attached he won full marks for aggression by continuing on with the broken bayonet and the instructor made it clear it may take longer to do, but the shortened blade would still kill. The instructor didn't seem surprised it had broken.
 

Rabbitsmacker

Settler
Nov 23, 2008
951
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41
Kings Lynn
As for the rifles I have no experience of them professionally, however I've handled them and would have to say that if the new a2 is as good as its supposed to be, then it surely must be a winner if the 5.56 rond must be carried, more ammo, lighter kit and all that. However, the buy cheap buy twice phrase springs to mind and maybe we should have just bought HK or American rifles in the first place. I'm sure others of greater knowledge than me will have an explanation, but I don't like waste of any kind, and as for the 6mm round mentioned before, I've heard extremely good things about it as a possible replacement to the current round.
 

Faz

Full Member
Mar 24, 2011
244
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Cheshire
Agreed, I dont know anyone who has broken a bayonet either.

I have seen 2 bayonets broken, as one of our instructors said, if you don't break it then your not hitting them hard enough. Great in training but for actual use, you really need it in one piece for the next one!
 

madgaz

Forager
Sep 21, 2011
221
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Bradford, West Yorkshire
Thanks Southey for the reply to the question (and Red for earlier input ;) ) An interesting, but hardly viable, reasoning I heard for the caliber switch was that a 5.56 would take 2 people out if the fight. 1 injured and 1 to help him to safety. The 7.62 would just decimate, and they would just leave the casualty due to no hope. Interesting, but wrong. As per SLR vs SA80, its horses for courses really is it not? I prefer the look of the G36 police use though :D

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2
 

widu13

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 9, 2008
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brambles

Settler
Apr 26, 2012
771
71
Aberdeenshire
I dont really buy that, during ww1 the BEF tried that and didnt find it useful, they knew big bullet better stooping power. The only objectors where people who saw the test in the 1890s of big bullet vs tribal, with the .455 henerry rifles who shot BP rounds.

As I see it you have to remember that giving troops semi-automatic and automatic weapons has the effect of making their shot placement inherently less accurate, if only for the fact that quick successive shots throws off the point of aim. When troops used single shot Martini or bolt action Lee-Enfields it was more important to make that first shot count given the additional time before the next was available to you. Therefore troops today have to carry much more ammo and that stuff is heavy.
 

johnboy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 2, 2003
2,258
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Hamilton NZ
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The SLR / L1A1 was / is a very good semi automatic Assault rifle. In fact any FN FAL is good news and fun to shoot Just not on Automatic.


To understand the whole 7.62 x 51 and 5.56 debate you need to go back to the 1950's. The British and Americans had just fought the Korean War with small arms that dated from ww2 if you were in an infantry section in the British army in the early 1950's you likely had a bolt action rifle in the form of the .303 No4 or No5 if you were stationed is SE Asia and a section LMG in the form or the Bren in .303

If you think about it at the end of ww2 the germans had lead the way with small arms thinking with the introduction of the MP44 and the intermediate 7.92 x 33 Kurtz round.

Basically with a section of infantry you wanted a lot of fire power a Late war German infanty section equipped with Mp44's and a Mg 42 had a lot more fire power than a British infantry section in 1950 in Korea with Bolt action .303's and a Bren.

The problem with fire power is it consumes a lot of ammunition and full powered rounds like 30-06 and .303 are a pig to shoot fully automatic, were thought to be overpowered for combat ranges that had been experienced in Korea and lattely in ww2, and were heavy to carry if you lugged a lot of rounds.

So the British developed the .280 round and a rifle to fire in in the form of the EM2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EM-2

Our American cousins put the Kybosh on this as they had developed the 7.62x51 and a rifle to shoot it ( which became the M14) this lead to NATO standardising the 7.62x51 and the British army adopting the FAL which had been rechambered by FN to accept the now standard NATO round. However any fully automatic rifle in 7.62x51 is bad news M14 or FAL so the British Army dropped the Automatic Feature and also converted the design to be produced on Imperial tooling ( which is why you get Metric and Imperial FAL's.) It also converted the Bren over to 7.62 x 51 and we got the LMG and procured the superlative GPMG and converted the old No4 over to 7.62 x 51 to give us the L42 (and Enfield Enforcer).

The American's ( and Kiwi's and Aussies using SLR's) got embroiled in Vietnam and the Americans found that a full sized M14 had issues in Jungles and swamps.

1. The Ammo was heavy to lug around in large quantities if your choping through it on Semi and Full Auto.
2. The Walnut Stocks of the M14 tended to Warp ( so much so they issued a fibreglass stock for the Rifle).
3. It was a big rifle and not best suited to Local troops like the South Vietnamese.

The above lead after bit of a protracted period to the adoption of the Ar15/ M16 and the .223 / 5.56 round by the US Military.

Eugene Stoners AR 15 was revolutonary combining aerospace technology in the form of Light weight Alloy castings a very ergonomic design and the ability to fire semi controlably on Automatic. The 5.56 mm round is a lot lighter than the 7.62 x 51 so you can carry more ammunition for the same weight. The rifle was a lot lighter than the M14 and suited smaller statured troops such as the South Vietnamese.

So with the Americans now using 5.56 it soon became a standardised NATO round. With most NATO countries converting over by the late 80's.

The SLR was a good issue rifle for it's time.
 

tiger stacker

Native
Dec 30, 2009
1,178
40
Glasgow
A rifle is only accurate in trained hands, Glen Douglas kept LMG(L7) and LSR for years until they eventually got sold off. Life imitates fiction, PC Wren wrote of a legionaire youth surrendering his chassepot to the Prussians in 1871. Many years later the youth now a officer recovered his chassepot as spoils of war from native insurgants. Sierria Leone Para Rgt checked serial numbers of FNs FALS and SLRs that were harvested. Weapon from Bloody Sunday was amongst them.

HK make good rifles, reconditioning the A1 to A2 helped prior to 2003. Magazines went stainless steel to polymer with round remaining window. Given a choice between slr(sans sight) or A2(susat, acog or LDS) well scope wins naturally. As for bayonets it breaks, yet many reported stories of bayonet charges persist today.
Anyway back to bushcraft, sunny mornings cloudy afternoons and a chill on the air in the evenings.
 

Twodogs

Bushcrafter through and through
Nov 16, 2008
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West Midland
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Interesting , I would say it is SAS issue I have seen items with SAS stamped on bergans and smocks and no thay were not copies
If it was small arms school corp it would have SASC on it I would of thought .

SAS ACCesory for the L1A1 the SLR .


Im with Red it looks like a early drag bag


Twodogs
 

brambles

Settler
Apr 26, 2012
771
71
Aberdeenshire
Interesting , I would say it is SAS issue I have seen items with SAS stamped on bergans and smocks and no thay were not copies
If it was small arms school corp it would have SASC on it I would of thought .

Twodogs

What Southey said was

Sas agc = small arms school, adjutant General corps also known as sasc small arms school corps. Its a rifle bag is all, used to transport rifles.

SAS AGC would be the correct designation not SASC

And anything stamped "SAS" and being sold as Special Air Service kit would scream fake to me, whether it was original MOD kit or not, the stamping would be faked to try and screw money out of the gullible. A covert unit does not emblazon it's gear with its name.
 

madgaz

Forager
Sep 21, 2011
221
0
Bradford, West Yorkshire
Have you not bought any Genuine SAS surplus goodies off ebay before? :D:p:D:p:D Some of the stuff listed on there as SAS or Para etc is ridiculous. I've had plenty of SAS smocks, never listed them as that. Seem to get more interest just saying 'windproof' as they were.
I have no time for fakers, gives me a bloody hernia just thinking about them haha.
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Retired Member southey

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jun 4, 2006
11,098
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your house!
No fella the sasc Is correct, I was only sugesting it could be sas agc, as I have never seen any kit stamped with sas.

What Southey said was



SAS AGC would be the correct designation not SASC

And anything stamped "SAS" and being sold as Special Air Service kit would scream fake to me, whether it was original MOD kit or not, the stamping would be faked to try and screw money out of the gullible. A covert unit does not emblazon it's gear with its name.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Neither site looks like they're in the woods per se. more like a private range. At any rate, it's not that big a caliber. Common military loads in 7.62 are slightly lighter than deer loads for a .308 used to hunt in woods just such as those.
 

wingstoo

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
May 12, 2005
2,274
40
South Marches
I found these a while back whilst searching for a bit of nostalgia, but

SCARY ! ;http://youtu.be/WHXCo1j7fWM

And this one ; http://youtu.be/boyuMaHSYIQ

I would not like to be in those woods behind, not with that thing being fired.

His IA drills are not so good though, Cock hook and look, rounds jammed in the breach, apply safety, remove magazine, clear blockage, re-fit magazine release working parts and safety and carry on firing, weapon fire one or two more rounds and stops again, cock hook and look, rounds in the magazine, no rounds in the chamber, release working parts, adjust gas plug one or two notches and carry on firing, standing shoot should adjust the gas by two notches to make up for the lack of a firm shoulder compared to prone position firing.

Any infantry rifle is supposed to be good in an infantrymans hands out to 300mtrs individual firing, out to about 600mtrs as a section shoot, then it is a snipers job using optics.

I used to be able to put down a 63mm group with an SLR at 100mtrs in the adverse weather conditions of North Yorkshire, whereas it was under 300mm at 200mtrs with an SA type rifle (Cadet GP Rifle L98A1).

The early SA80 was far to easy to waste ammunition unless good fire discipline was engaged, the A2 IIRC has a three round burst instead of full auto.

A good infantryman with a No4 can put down the same rate of accurate fire as an L1A1 SLR, the SLR had, AFAICR, an expected malfunction of 1 or 2 rounds per 20 round magazine, though this was rarely the case.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
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Florida
Didnt I mention a reliability issue earlier and someone say I was wrong? Point proven.

Maybe. But the malfunctios they were having look more like the type tracable to the magazines rather than the weapon proper. I believe one of the shooters even questioed if those were original mags or Israeli mags.
 

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