58 Pattern Large Pack Fittings

[Steviecaca]

Does anyone out there know what the FITTINGS on the outside of the 58 Large Pack FLAP is used for? I am ex-services (Royal Signals) & I vaguely remember someone telling us what it was used for, but I have long since forgotten. Is it for a shovel fitting? If so, does anyone know where I might find one? If not, What Is It Used For??

Many Thanks!!

 

[Crowe]

Yep, your right. flap and stud are designed to fit the hole in the 'T' shaped handle of the 'Shovel Light weight GS'
Crowe

 

[wingstoo]

Bit like the attachment point on the yoke, at the top of the photo.

Wings

 

[Ray Britton]

The stud and buckle on the top of the yoke are definitely for the GS shovel, with the shovel having a hole in the shaft just below the handle

Like mine in this pic:

There was a also a 'pocket' for a pick axe head on the roll pack from memory.

On the '58 large pack, apart from the dog clips to attach it to your webbing, there should also be four other straps. Two are to attach a '58 sleeping bag, and the other two cross over each other to attach a GS steel helmet.

Bearing in mind that the shovel was worn down the centre of your back in fighting order, with the handle at the top, and the shovel end behind your bum, I think the shovel part would dig into you if the handle was attached to the stud on the large pack. I'm not saying that's not what is is for, but I never saw it used that way.

Here is a pic of someone entering a building wearing a '58 shovel on his webbing. You can see how it fits against his back, and between the kidney pouches.

 

[launditch1]

It is also used for the pickaxe handle, the head goes in the pocket on the bumroll.

*Edit.im thinking of the yoke for holding the pick handle*

 

[wingstoo]

Bearing in mind that the shovel was worn down the centre of your back in fighting order, with the handle at the top, and the shovel end behind your bum, I think the shovel part would dig into you if the handle was attached to the stud on the large pack. I'm not saying that's not what is is for, but I never saw it used that way.

I found this picture of the shovel attached to the large pack.

Wings

 

[Ray Britton]

That looks like a crazy position to carry it...it looks really low, like it would stab you in the back of the leg if you knelt quickly to fire!

It's a typically British mix of issue gear too. S6 helmet, '58 webbing, roll mat, '85 pattern jacket and '90 pattern trousers. lol

 

[wingstoo]

Probably an ACF cadet on "ops" ;-)

Wings

(It is CEMO rather than CEFO though, so no doubt would be jettisoned ASAP if he came under fire and needed to fight.)

 

[Ray Britton]

I wished I had not just read that...I was trying to eat some cake lol

Cadets on 'ops'.....I know exactly what you mean, and is something I have been amused by for many years.

Ops wear examples have included:

Needing to wear windproof smock and trousers, plus recce vest......To show cadets how to use a hexi cooker!

Carrying a MOD survival knife on the firing range!

Not being able to fit all their gear in a bergan...For an overnighter, despite having no food or ammo inside it!

 

[wingstoo]

Not being able to fit all their gear in a bergan...For an overnighter, despite having no food or ammo inside it!

Now that is something that always find amusing, the female cadets who went away for two nights and three days and took 12 sets of underwear and glossy magazines weighing in at over half a kilo each.

Just don't look at the cadet forces forums Ray, you will not be in a fit state to walk afterwards.

Air cadet "fieldcraft"

Army cadet "Fieldcraft"

They tend to forget they are teenagers on a weekend out with their mates sometimes

 

[Ray Britton]

Now you just know I am going to look at those links don't you.

It was quite scary to leave to Intelligence Corps, and then start to teach cadets.........Only to find they had/needed more specialist gear than I did !

It was made worse by the fact I had used it to sneak into what was then East Germany....and they were 'needing' it for walking around their cadet huts!

Cadet instructor fashion had to be seen to be believed

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

was looking at the piccy,
just wondering have cadets ever used or been issued NBC gear?
it's just there is an obvious unpacked Mk2/3 NBC jacket hanging out of the lower poncho roll.

All the gear the guy in the picture is wearing was fairly commonplace when i was in the TA, there was a good old mixture of Gucci and "old school" gear.
we had to use 58" large pack (and shovel etc as shown) for our basic training (we covered the shovel head with a sandbag though for camo).
only difference we carried the 58" sleeping bag inside the "large pack" inside a black bin bag) the roll mat was carried on top.
by the way I was issued a 1950/60's metal helmet, but you could buy "kevlars" for £10 on camp!.

 

[wingstoo]

The photo is of a member of http://www.forces80.com/

So I guess that there is a mis-match of kit as it is a "demo" picture to some extent.

Cadets with NBC gear would be scary, they would be a lawsuit waiting to happen in a high percentage of cases.

Sleeping bag inside of the pack would seriously restrict the amount of gucci kit you can carry ;-)

Wings

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

yup, but it was only for basic training, no real gucci kit there!
certainly no space for spares!

I figured out what I had in there a while back.
remembering that you had a lot of Personal admin gear on the 58" webbing (wash kit, boot kit, first aid, rations etc)
for basic training in the large pack we had:
spare combats, pair of plimsolls, woolly hat, issue woolly gloves(if not in pocket).
spare mess tin, spare rations, waterproofs (DPM PU coated type), and the top of the padded insulated suit, not much else.
we had to carry either a shovel or pickaxe as mentioned before.

the modern issue sleeping bag/bivibag combo would not have fitted.

the earlier weeks training you didn't have the webbing, just the large pack! without a yoke to clip it on!
I never saw the issue of PLCE(unless self bought), or Goretex, though we had S10 respirators, and SA80's were just coming in.

 

[wingstoo]

waterproofs (DPM PU coated type), and the top of the padded insulated suit

Oh the good old days, we had long john trousers as well for the winter, and Catterick Aerodrome was cold in mid-winter.

Fortunately the "course rock" never got in my bag!!! only about 6Kg added to the weight.