Gypsy landmarks, camping etc

[Tony]

I'm not sure how i'm going to explain my question here bit i'll have a go.
For a while i've been thinking about this and the thread on wild camping has made me think about it some more

In the old days when there was a lot more travelling gypsey style, horse and carts etc there used to be a number of ways that they could identify a good place to stop, even to the point that they would know which was a good hedge to sleep under and the like. No i'm presuming that this is a dying art but it is? Does it still go on?

In many ways these older travellers knew the land so very well and how to live in it, it would be nice to know if it's surviving in some form, although i am making the assumption that modern travellers aren't the same really as the gypsies of old.

Anyone know anything?

 

[DavidJT]

Interesting question, don't know, but from what I've read the proper old "Gentlemen of the Road" were by necessity really good bushcrafters.

 

[durulz]

Hmm, now that's an interesting question.
Bit of a minefield subject (gypsies) so I'll steer clear of most of the issues. But what is interesting is the subject of gypsies and wild camping. BCUK makes a good effort to ensure it does not condone camping on land without permission, but how is that any different to what gypsies do?
To confound the matter quite often local authorities will not move on traveller groups. So the question has to be about identifying an 'authentic' gyspsy, as opposed to someone who just wants to camp out for the night. After all, if your average wild camper claimed to be a 'gypsy', would that make their position any different? And how does one identify what a 'gypsy' is (the days of horse-drawn carts in bright colours and seductive gypsy maids, alas, being relegated to Enid Blyton novels)?
I have no answers to these questions, unfortunately, but interested to see what others think and see if anyone has specialist knowledge in this field.

 

[Tony]

ok, i'm not asking for info so much on legal activities but the signs and knowledge that they had/have and where and even what is it?

 

[durulz]

ok, i'm not asking for info so much on legal activities but the signs and knowledge that they had/have and where and even what is it?

Oh.
Well, in that case, my experience (locally) is that their choice of campsite is not so much dictated by what wild resources are available so much as which farmer left a gate to a large field unlocked. Nothing as bucolic or romantic as being 'in touch with the natural world' I'm afraid.

 

[MartiniDave]

Tony,

Theres some info on hobo signs a way down the page in this link:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DUR/HighSpen/Part2.html

Dave

 

[Tony]

cool, thanks for that Dave

Quoted from that link:
GYPSIES

In my early childhood, gypsies were quite a common sight on Barlow Fell. From here they visited the houses in Barlow to do business in their various ways. High Spen also had them infrequently. As boys we watched them and studied them (with envy) and eventually I picked up the Romany language. Romanies were true gypsies unlike the Diddicoys who were of mixed origins and were never to be trusted. Left are some of the signs left after a gypsy had visited the village. These signs were made with twigs or with chalk.

So, does anyone know anyone that still uses signs like these or something different?

 

[Wayland]

Round our way the only marks we see are like this.

 

[tobes01]

I'm glad you said that Wayland. Our local travellers use a complex system of signs based around broken white goods to denote useful lay-bys, fields and tracks. Popular sites are sometimes marked with traditional pyres of discarded building materials and occasionally a car (possibly to indicate 'useful parking place?')

I'll get me coat.

 

[tobes01]

On a more serious note, I suspect much of this knowledge was based on seasonal travel patterns. My understanding is that travellers didn't generally wander at random, but followed a pattern dictated by seasonal work, fairs etc. My late father-in-law used harvest labour from travellers on his farm, in return they were paid and able to stay in one of the fields. I guess that knowledge was hard-earned and closely protected.

 

[Melonfish]

Last year we had a load move into the vacent lot opposite our work, they have a thing about plonking down the caravans then out comes the ariels and the dog kennels (those big plastic dog kennels)
they kept a horse on the grass next to the road, the council placed a large green skip ready to pick up after they left.
when they did leave it was a mess! especially the half destroyed caravan they left behind. however someone with a fork lift was kind enough to sort that out for us...

 

[tobes01]

Love it! Btw, before anyone accuses me of being anti-traveller, my maternal grandmother was the first person in her family to live in a house, her roots were Romany. None of it shows in me except for dark-ish skin and a hankering to do shabby tarmac jobs on people's drives...

 

[Tony]

I'm more after the older gypsies rather than the modern traveller type's (that's me trying to avoid the issues that would be raised )

 

[BushTucker]

Tony
Not sure exactly what you are looking for but found this so might be interesting for you , its 60 pages long mind.
http://www.wattpad.com/7136-Romano-Lavo-Lil-word-book-of-the-Romany-or-English-Gypsy-language?p=1

 

[jack by the hedge]

I'm glad some else remembers this.

When I were a lad in the 70's I got told about this, they were made with sticks / wood or stones but weren't cut into anything as you had to be able to change the signs if things changed. It similar to what the indians over in north america / canada did when they left bones of game they had killed. To let other know what had been used so not to over use a resource.

I forgot about it for years until the i saw markings on the road in london around 2000. they were to let people know where open wifi access points were. I asked around then and no body knew anything. And the old lad to told me is sadly long gone.

Things have changed a lot, I'm guessing that this isn't used anymore.

Maybe we should start it up again. I like the one about dogs, maybe we could have one for "Farmer doesn't check the top field after dark and won't be there until an hour after sunrise".

 

[Tadpole]

I'm not sure how i'm going to explain my question here bit i'll have a go.
For a while i've been thinking about this and the thread on wild camping has made me think about it some more

In the old days when there was a lot more travelling gypsey style, horse and carts etc there used to be a number of ways that they could identify a good place to stop, even to the point that they would know which was a good hedge to sleep under and the like. No i'm presuming that this is a dying art but it is? Does it still go on?

In many ways these older travellers knew the land so very well and how to live in it, it would be nice to know if it's surviving in some form, although i am making the assumption that modern travellers aren't the same really as the gypsies of old.

Anyone know anything?

google the "Encyclopedia of Western Signs and Ideograms" By Carl G. Liungman
page 576 onwards is an appendix of hobo/tramp and Rom symbols.

 

[steve a]

Ian Nialls book ''No Resting Place'' discusses various signs and site markings, out of print but you should be able to find a secondhand copy quite easily.

 

[bushwacker bob]

Real Romany Gypsies used to do the harvest on the market gardens that proliferated around here after the war and most of them arrived in canvas teepees!
I know an old boy that used to employ them.

 

[redandshane]

For what its worth i can remember one sunday n the sixties we were out for a drive as a family in the remote parts of the Galloway Hills and we saw a couple of old style horse drawn caravans with bender type shelters complete with chimneys they were gypsies but if I remember right they came over from Ireland
They used to come round and sharpen scissors and garden shears etc
Some worked on the farms at times
There must be a book of some kind

 

[Klenchblaize]

"Smoke In The Lanes"