Why do they do it ???

[Shewie]

A warning has just been given out on Radio 2 news bulletin regarding bad conditions on the Lake District summits, in particular Helvellyn.
They`ve warned of avalanche conditions because of unconsolidated snow resting on ice mainly on the east faces.

You can guarantee now that there will be even more folk venturing out there after hearing this news than if they`d said nothing at all.

I`ve just rung the Lake District weatherline ( 08700550575) and these reports are confirmed, deep snow above 500m together with a -16* windchill. They have warned people to stay away until the snow has become safe and then should only be attempted with full winter gear including ice axes and crampons.

I feel the chaps at mountain rescue will be having a busy day tomorrow.




Rich

 

[Jodie]

I am very ignorant about mountains, hills and avalanches - have there been any UK
avalanches? I tend to think of them as something that "happens abroad". It had
never occurred to me that it would happen here but I suppose if we get a heavy snow
that could be a problem. I am mildly fascinated now

Chances of me heading up any mountains = pretty much zero.

 

[Dougster]

I think I was once told more people get caught in them in Scotland than the alps, either that or more occur. Frightening either way.

 

[John Fenna]

The first recorded avalanche death in Britain was, I believe, in Kent, when a railway embankment avalanched and killed a railwayman.
I have been avalanched in the Cairngorms (while digging a test pit while on an avalanche awareness course at Glenmore Lodge - we went about 2m....) and have seen slopes go in Snowdonia.
Avalanches kill and not only abroad!

 

[Jodie]

I wonder if that's because they're thinking that avalanches don't happen in the UK and so
don't give them much of a thought...

 

[oilyrag]

Avalanches are a daily hazard out here and you don't get killed by bad luck, ignorance will claim you PDQ if you can't recognise the signs, go up alone or without proper equipment.

Here's a very useful resource for those entering avalanche country for the first time.
www.recco.com/pdf/whitebook.pdf

 

[Mike Ameling]

Why do people go out into areas with KNOWN DANGEROUS conditions?

For the RISK ... the DANGER!

Many people are just adreniline junkies! And the rest are doing it for a "psychological" reason. Those edumacated experts say that many people do risky things to make up for a lack of personal control/excitement in their everyday lives. They say that these people need a little danger/risk to show themselves that they are still alive.

The rest are just too dumb to survive, and are only alive because other people have been saving their sorry butts from their own actions.

Just my humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. If they go out into an avalanche area after all the warnings and get caught in one, then let them die. That way there won't be a "repeat performance" of their stupidity in the future - and nobody else will be put at risk.

 

[Shewie]

I suppose my question was aimed at the media for telling everybody, rather than the folk who venture out despite the warnings.

I just thought it was a bad idea to broadcast on national news that there are avalanche conditions to be found in one of our already most popular tourist destinations. It`s just a little bit to tempting for some to hear warnings like these and stay away.


Rich

 

[h2o]

News is news,the media need to warn the sensible people to stay away,

 

[Limaed]

Hi all,
Its good that Radio 2 are putting out these reports but it isnt the whole story. The reality is that when there is snow on the ground in the UK mountains avalanches happen.
Equally freezing winds and deep snow are normal conditions that one would expect in the winter mountains. One should also always carry an ice axe and crampons.
People are often unaware that avalanches happen in the UK but often an avalanche may only be a small slide rather than the percived 'whole mountain side' .What often happens is that walkers and climbers are knocked off thier feet and are then injured as they fall or suffocate when the slide stops. UK snow is often very wet and sets like conrete.
Although this report advised people to avoid the mountains it is still possible to go on the hill. Certain aspects of the mountain are safe where as others are dangerous, with training and experience it is possible to do a risk assesment and use that as a guide whether to venture out or not and although not fool proof is a standard system all winter mountaineers should use.
Often the public backlash is one as of the name of this thread yet winter mountaineering is a very rewarding pursuit. We should remmember that we all drive in awful conditions without a second though yet if we did a risk assesment : high winds, rush hour, snow etc etc we would be far safer at home. Imagine if someone said to us as bushcrafters sorry no buscrafting that knife is too sharp and you might get burned by the fire were'd tell them where to go!
Im not saying people should be reckless far from it but with proper skills, experience and equipment the UK mountains can be enjoyed in winter.
By highlighting the risk the media are doing a great service, anyone who wholud like to learn more about Uk avalances should visit the Scottish Avalance Information Service website. Ta Ed

 

[Shewie]

Can`t argue with you there Ed but don`t you think that when "avalanche" is mentioned on national radio, the ears of countless idiots across the country are suddenly pricked and they say " I fancy a bit of danger, lets go to the Lakes tomorrow ".

I just think that those of us who regularly get up to the summits and more extreme areas of this country would check conditions first and don`t need telling on the telly or radio. There are plenty of resources available to us to check before we leave so there are no excuses really.



Rich

 

[Limaed]

Youre right in what your'e saying Rich, but often people are ignorant of danger I would hope information like this serves to educate not encourage foolhardiness.
Ed

 

[crazyclimber]

I see your point with this, but... -16 with windchill and a loose unstable snowpack is prob going to deter most casual hillwalkers, I would hope anyway!

The other thing with avalanches is that though they're mostly science, there's an element of art too. The most memorable I've seen happened in a popular gully in coire an-t sneachda. It was while I was doing a winter mountaineering course, and about 10 mins after our winter ML instructor told us that avalanches are very unlikely on slopes above 50 degrees!
As another point in case, I hear that the SAIS have lost people while testing for them

 

[BushTucker]

As any engieer will tell you, screws will work lose regardless, and so the same is true of humans.
I will never understand the risk of the thrill.

Don

 

[falling rain]

I suppose my question was aimed at the media for telling everybody, rather than the folk who venture out despite the warnings.

I just thought it was a bad idea to broadcast on national news that there are avalanche conditions to be found in one of our already most popular tourist destinations. It`s just a little bit to tempting for some to hear warnings like these and stay away.


Rich

They're just covering their backsides Shewie. There'll always be the clowns who go out anyway and thats never going to stop, but sensible folks will stay away because they've been warned not to go out. If there was not a warning, sensible folks will be outraged when it all goes wrong because no one told them, which is fair enough.
It's the same as any weather warnings or shipping forcasts etc. Designed to WARN. There'll always be the few who choose not to listen.

 

[Grooveski]

No bad thing for the news to warn folk that things will be worse than usual.
Sometimes plans are made weeks beforehand for winter climbs, if you travel to the bottom of a hill intending to go up you'll probably give it a go but if there's a weather warning you may think twice before leaving home. As mentioned, it's likely casual hillwalkers it's aimed at.

I do agree with you as well Shewie, it'll mean callouts. There may be folk out for the risk factor and there'll be folk out making the most of the conditions. I done a bit of winter climbing for a while in the late 80s before the snow got scarce and even then you had to take advantage of weather warnings just to find the conditions to go out and practice techniques.
When it all melts the kayakers will be out making the most of the swollen rivers and there'll likely be another bunch of callouts. Again, most of them will be casual thrillseekers but every now and then will be someone experienced who's just having a bad day.
Don't know what folk are thinking of as avalanches on the radio report, they come in all sorts of shape and sizes and gully avalanches are going to happen in the uk as often as they'll happen anywhere else. Given a gulley and enough snowfall it's inevitable. Worst I recall was when I was ice axe training and I sunk the axe in only to have the small area I was lying on come loose and send me off again when I was expecting to be slowing down. Was only about 2x3m but enough to put me in a situation. Was close to a gulley fall once as well.

As with so many other activities there's a fine line between comfort and trouble. Be it climbing or canoeing or biking or paragliding, stalking or setting up camp in a storm or x-boxing or clubbing - endorphins are being released. They're addictive.

 

[pothunter]

Natural selection!

If you put a notice over a hot object that says 'Don't Touch' just sit back and watch how many people get burnt.

In the days before the nanny state those getting killed in avalanches would surface in the spring, now we put the lives of others at risk to rescue them.

The answer is withdraw all rescue services for a three generation and eliminate the idiots.

Solve the housing crisis, reduce pressure on NHS and SS the possibilities are endless, stop ambulances attending road accidents of those who have endorsements for speeding and solve road congestion. Withdraw air from politicians because I don't like politicians.

Time for my medication now bye, bye.