I know there have been tents in ages gone by with wooden poles. In thinking about a pyramid fly/tarp set up I have always wanted to use two poles at angles to get rid of the central pole, and was wondering what sort of thickness is needed and what sort of weight is needed. How do they compare to aluminium, as wood is a lot lighter.
The weight of wooden poles for tents
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The wooden poles need to be heavy to avoid them bending in damp and heat. (I have seen some that ended up looking like bananas) Some of ours are two inches thick....that's double brush shaft thick. It makes them really, really heavy.
Tbh we were glad when we could buy replacement aluminium ones, even if we did have to be a bit more careful with them (they can bend, and the end pins break off and aren't so easily replaced) because they were so much lighter.
Sorry, don't think I'm being much help, but it's true.
I borrowed a geodesic dome once. It was made from Hazel poles and water pipes, and the poles locked into the waterpipe rings using long split pins.
Maybe something like that would work ?
M
Tbh we were glad when we could buy replacement aluminium ones, even if we did have to be a bit more careful with them (they can bend, and the end pins break off and aren't so easily replaced) because they were so much lighter.
Sorry, don't think I'm being much help, but it's true.
I borrowed a geodesic dome once. It was made from Hazel poles and water pipes, and the poles locked into the waterpipe rings using long split pins.
Maybe something like that would work ?
M
Thanks toddy, I was just wondering about the possibility of stiff poles. The aluminium ones are quite thick and weigh a bit, so two of those are heavy. Did wonder whether wood was a better option. Oh well the search continues.
Russ made me up a set of poles to hold up the front edge of my tarp to give me a dry workspace in front of my tent. He used poles from a caravan awning to do it.....might be worth having a play around with those ? Thing is that if you use short lengths and join them really well (George said take a short piece of the tube and cut a slot right down it's length. Force half of that into the end of one of your lengths and the other pole will force onto it too) then the joining bit in the middle greatly strengthens the tube, and stops it bending, even if it is kind of light weight.
Bound to be someone with a dead awning who will contribute the poles for experimentation
M
Bound to be someone with a dead awning who will contribute the poles for experimentation
M
Harking back to Toddy's suggestion of a geodesic solution that spreads the load created by the fabric over multiple external lightwieght poles several designers have experimented with using inflatable ribs.
Nemo Equipment a few years back were going to use bamboo as tent poles.
http://gearjunkie.com/the-gear-junkie-scoop-bamboo-tent-poles
http://gearjunkie.com/the-gear-junkie-scoop-bamboo-tent-poles
Get yourself a couple of Wilko clothes props (abt £5 the pair) and have a play with them. They're pretty good. Use a small jubilee clip to prevent unplanned collapse.
Also, google 'pyramiddle tent'.
Also, google 'pyramiddle tent'.
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I think Aluminium would be quite a bit lighter, wooden poles do look good though...
[video=youtube;ZzJHuWlEAtk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzJHuWlEAtk[/video]
Just a thought I had for a mid support, 2 of them might work for what you want.
The RSPB one dismantles into nicely manageable sections and and extender can be added:
http://shopping.rspb.org.uk/rspb-bird-feeder-pole.html
It seemed to me to be to be pretty sturdy and robust. You can view them at RSPB centres.
rorymax
The RSPB one dismantles into nicely manageable sections and and extender can be added:
http://shopping.rspb.org.uk/rspb-bird-feeder-pole.html
It seemed to me to be to be pretty sturdy and robust. You can view them at RSPB centres.
rorymax
Another + for the extendable Wilko clothes prop, they are £3 each and extend to 2.4m. http://www.wilko.com/pegs-lines+props/wilko-line-prop-extendable/invt/1289640
External 'A' frames have been around for a while
Thats up on ebay just now, search for 'good companions minor'
External 'A' frames have been around for a while
Thats up on ebay just now, search for 'good companions minor'
Hmmm. I've been thinking about asking where you get one of those middle poles you get with a Helsport tent.
@Rik
your link didn't work for me. I assume you mean one of these.
http://www.wilko.com/pegs-lines+props/wilko-line-prop-extendable/invt/1289640
http://www.wilko.com/pegs-lines+props/wilko-clothes-prop-square-assorted-25m/invt/0285509
Thanks for all the answers. Not too sure about the clothes prop, I'd be more inclined to use the steel tent poles from a tent that's long since decomposed.
Actually though the tarp pole is a good idea and the external pole, if you could have a 2 m external, you could probably get rid of the internal one, which surely must be a good thing. Also your tent would not have to be pyramidal, I have heard that the doors can be a problem in rain.
Actually though the tarp pole is a good idea and the external pole, if you could have a 2 m external, you could probably get rid of the internal one, which surely must be a good thing. Also your tent would not have to be pyramidal, I have heard that the doors can be a problem in rain.
Link works here
Anyway, yes thats the one, they work really well and we use them now in our 'parayurt', one each side of the woodburner. For £3 its worth a punt.
I think wooden poles would be good, but the lenght and if it's sawn timber factor must be taken acount for plus what kind of wood.
Sawn timber dosen't go along the fibers so i must be thicker to get the same strenght as cloven timber/ cut down trees that does go along the grain. And the longer the piece of wood the thicker it must be.
Thats the basics so let me give u a example or two.
My canvas tent that i lived in for 8 months (looked like a small house 2x3x2.5 m w.l.h.) had a external "A frame" of old almost half rotten pine around 10cm thick 3ich m long that was just cut down. That was plenty strong, no flex under heavy snowloads. Example 2 "stegestol" in swedish sort of like a windsor chair in english, the kind thats made of cloven logs, some dryer some more whet, that's crasy strong. Those we made had a ash back with sticks 28ish mm thick in diameter 90cm long, if i wanted i could have used those as a pull up bar for training.
Exemple 3, poles for those times you want to go up stream with your canoe, 5cm in diameter around 2.5m long made of cut down spruce trees. Holds for pushing 500kg canoe upstream a couple of years.
Now if you want a good weight/strenght ratio ash is not the best, norwegian spruce that is a little bit thicker is stronger for this purpose since it has i bit of flex in it.
So if i would have made sticks for a tent tarp set up( as i think you want it) i guess they should/need to be around 150cm long. To get good strenght/wheight ratio for that lenght they would be around 5x 2.5cm thick in a oval shape( round things are stronger but since it's only subjected to downward force the sides need not be that thick) with copper tube fittings top and bottom to prevent splitting, the top ones a bit longer with a hole so a bolt and wingnut can secure it. Everything made of cloven timber , not sawn or just cut down. Sawn for the reason i said before and cut down because it has the core left. When timber dries it gets funky and twists if they are not cloven. Cloven wood is more stable and you now if the woods going to twist or not because you have cloven it before it dries, depending on the pice of wood in a straight or a "twisted line".
They would be a bit heavier then aluminium ones but much nicer to look at and be around.
Hope this can help a bit.
Sawn timber dosen't go along the fibers so i must be thicker to get the same strenght as cloven timber/ cut down trees that does go along the grain. And the longer the piece of wood the thicker it must be.
Thats the basics so let me give u a example or two.
My canvas tent that i lived in for 8 months (looked like a small house 2x3x2.5 m w.l.h.) had a external "A frame" of old almost half rotten pine around 10cm thick 3ich m long that was just cut down. That was plenty strong, no flex under heavy snowloads. Example 2 "stegestol" in swedish sort of like a windsor chair in english, the kind thats made of cloven logs, some dryer some more whet, that's crasy strong. Those we made had a ash back with sticks 28ish mm thick in diameter 90cm long, if i wanted i could have used those as a pull up bar for training.
Exemple 3, poles for those times you want to go up stream with your canoe, 5cm in diameter around 2.5m long made of cut down spruce trees. Holds for pushing 500kg canoe upstream a couple of years.
Now if you want a good weight/strenght ratio ash is not the best, norwegian spruce that is a little bit thicker is stronger for this purpose since it has i bit of flex in it.
So if i would have made sticks for a tent tarp set up( as i think you want it) i guess they should/need to be around 150cm long. To get good strenght/wheight ratio for that lenght they would be around 5x 2.5cm thick in a oval shape( round things are stronger but since it's only subjected to downward force the sides need not be that thick) with copper tube fittings top and bottom to prevent splitting, the top ones a bit longer with a hole so a bolt and wingnut can secure it. Everything made of cloven timber , not sawn or just cut down. Sawn for the reason i said before and cut down because it has the core left. When timber dries it gets funky and twists if they are not cloven. Cloven wood is more stable and you now if the woods going to twist or not because you have cloven it before it dries, depending on the pice of wood in a straight or a "twisted line".
They would be a bit heavier then aluminium ones but much nicer to look at and be around.
Hope this can help a bit.
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