Mary Rose Tankard II, a little hot waxing

[MikeDB]

Finally bit the bullet and am now the er, proud owner of some 25kg’s of beeswax so I can properly hot dip some of my more period creations.

This one hasn’t been dyed, just totally immersed in hot beeswax. It’s set hard, really hard and yep, she holds water, well, in this case honeyed ale!

Before,

And of course, after

Cheers and good ale!

When I get some more time I’m going to look more into Cuir Bouilli (or hardened leather) and will hopefully put some test pieces through some of the traditional processes and try for some form of pictoral record of the effects on leather over time, temp and method, ho knows, it may even help someone


Mike

 

[jojo]

That tankard look the dog's danglies And the beer does look bad either

 

[Seagull]

All I can say, Mike, is well done.

To hot dip an item which must have taken hours to sew, well, you must have either taken a lot of time experimenting , or you have nerves of steel.

I,m just beginning to get into this hotwax process, on pouches mainly, and so far I have gotten away with it........except for the total dipping ( using offcuts ), which has resulted in more disasters than I really need.
For this, I reckon I need to start using a thermometer, and keep a much better eye on timings.

25 KGS ?.........KGS?? Blimey! how do you melt that lot; thermal lance?
I just make do with a coffe tin about half full, and that was dear enough.

When poss, could we see some more of your hw items?

rgds
Ceeg

 

[jojo]

Mike, you really inspired me with this!


Sooo, I went to the shop and bought this:

 

[MikeDB]

Very knid of you. Nerves of steel, sounds good but more like plain nerves tempered with a drop of ale and hey, you just gotta try sometimes.

It took a while to melt the wax for the tankards but that was only about 5ltrs. I've a much larger pan on order which will need timing with a calender!

Cheers
Mike

 

[mace242]

BeeWyched - that's my favorite beer - I'll not post a piccy of it because SWMBO will think I've finally flipped - but I've just got one from the fridge. Cheers!

 

[Eric_Methven]

For total control of hot dipping you need one of these or something like it.

This is the one I bought. OK, it cost nearly £80 but it's been worth it.
Part of the problem is controlling the temperature of the wax. Too hot and it boils the leather down to a frazzled piece of waste. Too cool and the wax doesn't penetrate the leather but sits on the surface with a waxy sheen.

Using the double boiler allows the wax to come up to just below water boiling point which is way below wax boiling point. If you heat it directly over a fire you can't control the temp properly. A double boiler is also much, much safer as wax will ignite without warning once it reaches it's flash point. It's not like fat which will smoke and choke before flaring. It will just go whoosh. The double boiler prevents that. The kind in the photo also has a filling spout so I can keep it topped up from the kettle without the need to remove the wax pan.

I just fill the bottom pan with water, add the wax pan, put it on the stove (turned up full) an let it boil up. When the water starts spitting out of the filling spout I turn the heat down to a fast simmer and go and do something else for forty five minutes. Then I top up the boiling water and check the wax. If there is any unmelted wax in the pan, I leave it a bit longer. Once all the wax has melted an it's nice and clear, it's ready for dipping.

I dip the item and completely submerge it until all the little air bubbles stop coming to the surface of the wax. Then I know the leather is saturated. I lift the item out and allow it to drain back into the wax pan. Then I take a couple of paper kitchen towels and wipe over the outside of the item removing surplus wax. I then sit the item aside and allow it to cool naturally.

All working surfaces are covered with newspaper because there will be drips here and there. I wear heavy duty rubber gloves when working with hot wax because it does hurt if you get it on bare skin. It's not like dripping a hot candle on your fingers, this stuff will cause bad burns if it gets on you.

Also, if the item I'm dipping has somewhere to tie a bit of string, I do so before dipping and keep the string out of the wax during the dipping. It makes getting it out so much easier as a hot waxed item is very slippery and can plop back into the wax unexpectedly causing you to get covered in the stuff. That's why I also wear a leather apron.

Eric

 

[MikeDB]

For total control of hot dipping you need one of these or something like it.

This is the one I bought. OK, it cost nearly £80 but it's been worth it.
Part of the problem is controlling the temperature of the wax. Too hot and it boils the leather down to a frazzled piece of waste. Too cool and the wax doesn't penetrate the leather but sits on the surface with a waxy sheen.

Using the double boiler allows the wax to come up to just below water boiling point which is way below wax boiling point. If you heat it directly over a fire you can't control the temp properly. A double boiler is also much, much safer as wax will ignite without warning once it reaches it's flash point. It's not like fat which will smoke and choke before flaring. It will just go whoosh. The double boiler prevents that. The kind in the photo also has a filling spout so I can keep it topped up from the kettle without the need to remove the wax pan.

I just fill the bottom pan with water, add the wax pan, put it on the stove (turned up full) an let it boil up. When the water starts spitting out of the filling spout I turn the heat down to a fast simmer and go and do something else for forty five minutes. Then I top up the boiling water and check the wax. If there is any unmelted wax in the pan, I leave it a bit longer. Once all the wax has melted an it's nice and clear, it's ready for dipping.

I dip the item and completely submerge it until all the little air bubbles stop coming to the surface of the wax. Then I know the leather is saturated. I lift the item out and allow it to drain back into the wax pan. Then I take a couple of paper kitchen towels and wipe over the outside of the item removing surplus wax. I then sit the item aside and allow it to cool naturally.

All working surfaces are covered with newspaper because there will be drips here and there. I wear heavy duty rubber gloves when working with hot wax because it does hurt if you get it on bare skin. It's not like dripping a hot candle on your fingers, this stuff will cause bad burns if it gets on you.

Also, if the item I'm dipping has somewhere to tie a bit of string, I do so before dipping and keep the string out of the wax during the dipping. It makes getting it out so much easier as a hot waxed item is very slippery and can plop back into the wax unexpectedly causing you to get covered in the stuff. That's why I also wear a leather apron.

Eric

And that, good people is a fairly definative and erudite explanation.

I'd add nothing but 'good luck' !

Cheers
Mike

 

[Seagull]

Thanks, Eric and Mike; things are a little clearer now...

but, there,s still a couple of questions nagging at me, about what happens to leather on a hot dip.

The thing is, having sew,d the article, I always wet form to final shape, when possible ,and I am wondering what happens during the dip? f,rinstance, am I liable to lose all the shaping and have to do it all again.....another thing I am bothered about, is the idea of another overall shrinkage....wet molding seems to be ok provided I put the former back in place.

Judging by my own experiences to date, anything I,ve hotdipped is subject to a degree of kizzening and shrinkage; so maybe I had better start allowing for this, in the initial measurements prior to cutting out.

I would be very interested in what you,re experiences had been......especially the failures!

Ceeg

I ought to make it clear, that any dipping is done to dry leather only.

 

[fishfish]

why do you not wipe the excess wax from the inside of the mug? doesnt ot continually flake off into yer ale?
could you post a cutting template or a 'how to'?

 

[MikeDB]

Thanks, Eric and Mike; things are a little clearer now...

but, there,s still a couple of questions nagging at me, about what happens to leather on a hot dip.

The thing is, having sew,d the article, I always wet form to final shape, when possible ,and I am wondering what happens during the dip? f,rinstance, am I liable to lose all the shaping and have to do it all again.....another thing I am bothered about, is the idea of another overall shrinkage....wet molding seems to be ok provided I put the former back in place.

Judging by my own experiences to date, anything I,ve hotdipped is subject to a degree of kizzening and shrinkage; so maybe I had better start allowing for this, in the initial measurements prior to cutting out.

I would be very interested in what you,re experiences had been......especially the failures!

Ceeg

I ought to make it clear, that any dipping is done to dry leather only.

Ceeg,

I've found that most of the problems with shrinkage and distortion is a result of either water on or still in the leather.

Basically this technique is similar to Cuir Bouilli (which is hardening leather with boiling or very hot water used to be used for some armour etc) and so the heat causes a partial melting of the fixed tannin aggregates in the leather, making them plastic, causing them to flow and redistribute themselves throughout the fibre network of the leather. On cooling, the fibres become embedded in what can best be best described as a tough, polymer network almost like a resin hence the additional hardness and shape holding rigidity.

I wet mould and then dry the leather out totally before applying any wax, it come out of the wax somewhat pliable but will keep it's original shape if handled carefully.

Having said all that, many things affect the end result, time in the wax, wax tempreture, humidity and even differences in the original tan.

Hope that makes some sense.

Cheers
Mike

 

[Seagull]

Yup, cheers Mike.

I shall put all this new found knowledge to the test ,shortly, and post pics on the results....mainly a " what not to do" showing the pitfalls I,ve had.

If nowt else, the wife is certain to come out of it with a couple of new kitchen pans.


Ceeg

 

[Seagull]

Just had a thought.

"Cuir Bouilli" so that's what I,ve been trying to do, then.

I have the daftest notion that its probably understandable why my efforts appear to have met the same fate as the apocryphal pen of of my Aunt, and the more plausible, but less fortunate, postillion......."eeh bah gum. Its warm out there tonight Bert"

Ceeg