cheers lads, i figured i`d treat it the same as i would a bergen and spend some money so skimping isnt an issue on that front as my bergen is living proof that if you spend it will last a long long time,not that i intend to throw my son on and off helicopters and c130`s though ,those days are over now :-D ,george i love the fact that your first one is still going strong and travelling :-D , i`m beggining to think that these things reach the same "old friend" status as a bergen then ? and adi dont worry i`ll definately try before i buy so i dont find out the hard way , i wonder ifthe shop manager will let me " nip off to the top of that hill" with it before i hand over some dough ,once again cheers for the replies any more ?. al :-D