A Few Comments...

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pierre girard

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Dec 28, 2005
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Hunter Lake, MN USA
... on military bolt actions.

I am, in no sense of the word, an expert, but many of the r---es I've owned were military surplus bolt actions.

My first military BA was a 30-40 Krag Jorgenson, US military bolt action adopted by US Army about 1892. I bought it when I was 12 for $15. It was the carbine model. For deer, it worked well, though the side loading magazine was a bit odd. The action was very smooth. I sold it some years later for $75. Love to have another, but now they command prices of about $900.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag-Jorgenson_rifle

In the early 1960s a Target department store opened in Duluth. British Enfields, American Enfields, and American Springfields would come in 50 gallon drums, full of cosmoline. The British and American Enfields would sell for between $8 and $12, and the Springfields, a few dollars more. I bought quite a few of each and resold them.

I did not like the American Enfields - kind of a clubby, unbalanced thing. My grandfather carried one during WWI, and I wish I'd hung on to that one (he was a combat engineer and was in Europe until almost 1920, and just brought his Enfield home when he was released from service. He couldn't figure out who he was supposed to turn it over to - the American military so downsized by that time).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_rifle_(American_Enfield)

The Brit Enfields were nice for hunting because of the removable magzine. You could carry an extra magazine in your pocket and be good to go. Many are still in use in our area. I always liked the WW I models as they had a brass butt plate and generally looked better - but were more likely to have worn bores. I never did get used to the extra push required to get the bolt seated, and they were not quite as easy to do fast following shots with as some other bolt actions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield

The Springfields fell into three different categories, the "O3," the O3-A3," and the "Ford Ordinance." The O3 was considered to be the best of these, though the bore was more likely to be worn. The actions were good, and you could get off fast following shots, if you kept the stock at your shoulder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_M1903

I've owned a number of Mausers, and some of the best were straight bolt Argentine or Spanish Mausers. Mausers generally have a relatively smooth action and, though some are heavy to carry, make a fairly good deer rifle. Probably the best one I owned was a short Spanish Mauser - re-barreled for the .308 Nato cartridge. Most, however, were German Mausers in the 8 mm cartridge. While this cartridge is factory loaded down - due to the large variety and ages of rifles that use it - it is a good deer cartridge, and is acceptable for larger game as well.. While most military bolt actions have gone out of sight, price wise, Yugoslav mausers can still be purchased for about $150 and Turkish mausers can be purchased for $100. Both take the 8 MM cartridge. When I purchase such, I always make sure to get a guarantee of an accurate bore. The Yugoslav, especially, have nice slim lines, and seem to be slightly lighter to carry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_rifle
 

longshot

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Mar 16, 2006
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Newfoundland, Canada
i have an enfield, british/canadian not sure if it was made in the UK or in the canadian factory. made in 1942 and shoots like a dream i took a moose with it 2 years ago.

dean
 

longshot

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Mar 16, 2006
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Newfoundland, Canada
i have an enfield, british/canadian not sure if it was made in the UK or in the canadian factory. made in 1942 and shoots like a dream i took a moose with it 2 years ago.

dean
 

pierre girard

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Dec 28, 2005
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Nice thing about the Enfield is the weight. Of all the military bolt actions I've lugged around, they are the lightest, with the WW I models being about 8.6 pounds (3.71 kg).
 

Tor helge

Settler
May 23, 2005
739
44
55
Northern Norway
www.torbygjordet.com
I have a Krag-Jørgensen rifle in 6.5 x 55. I have never tried hunting with it but it is a fairly good shooter. They are however illegal to use on moose in Norway because one can only shoot lighter loads with them (the 6.5 X 55 Mauser is a round with more punch to it).

I also have a Lee Einfield MK III, made in 1943 (should they be in production then?). I have never tried it though. It`s in almost mint condition. An airdrop item from the war.

The rifle I mostly use when hunting is my trusty old Mauser 98k, in 30-06. It is made in Brno. Don`t remember the year. The norwegian army adopted the rifle after the war changing barrels to make it a 30-06. Later these rifles were sold on the open market.
This rifle is excellent. Cheap and rugged.

fae56ea8.jpg


Tor
 

pierre girard

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Dec 28, 2005
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Hunter Lake, MN USA
Tor helge said:
I have a Krag-Jørgensen rifle in 6.5 x 55. I have never tried hunting with it but it is a fairly good shooter. They are however illegal to use on moose in Norway because one can only shoot lighter loads with them (the 6.5 X 55 Mauser is a round with more punch to it).

I also have a Lee Einfield MK III, made in 1943 (should they be in production then?). I have never tried it though. It`s in almost mint condition. An airdrop item from the war.

The rifle I mostly use when hunting is my trusty old Mauser 98k, in 30-06. It is made in Brno. Don`t remember the year. The norwegian army adopted the rifle after the war changing barrels to make it a 30-06. Later these rifles were sold on the open market.
This rifle is excellent. Cheap and rugged.


Tor

Krags available in the US are generally 30-40 Gov't caliber - which is not far behind the 30-06 in ballistics - and works fine for moose, bear, or deer.

Mk III Enfield, (officially SMLE #1 Mk lll), was introduced in 1895, adopted in 1903 and was the one used in WW I. The SMLE # 4 MK 1 was introduced in 1939, and was the one generally in use during WW II, so a person would think your Mk lll should not have been manufactured in 1943, but who knows what was going on with manufacture during the war years.

My 98k, in 7.92 X 57, was also manufactured in Brno, but still has the original military stock - making it a bit heavier.
 

Tor helge

Settler
May 23, 2005
739
44
55
Northern Norway
www.torbygjordet.com
pierre girard said:
Krags available in the US are generally 30-40 Gov't caliber - which is not far behind the 30-06 in ballistics - and works fine for moose, bear, or deer.

Mk III Enfield, (officially SMLE #1 Mk lll), was introduced in 1895, adopted in 1903 and was the one used in WW I. The SMLE # 4 MK 1 was introduced in 1939, and was the one generally in use during WW II, so a person would think your Mk lll should not have been manufactured in 1943, but who knows what was going on with manufacture during the war years.

My 98k, in 7.92 X 57, was also manufactured in Brno, but still has the original military stock - making it a bit heavier.

Pierre

It isn`t that the 6,5 x 55 Krag don`t work on moose :) . It is the law that say it isn`t powerful enough.
Most moose in killed in Norway in "modern" times are shot with a Krag-Jørgensen.

If you look closely on the photo of my M98 you will see that I`ve also kept the original stock. I`ve just chopped it of and built a cheak piece on it.
Hence the spray painted stock.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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Since we're talking Lee Enfields - heres mine

leeenfield21hh.jpg


Lee Enfield No.4 Mk II. Sporterised stock it came with and (in the picture) Parker Hale apperture sights. I sometimes run it with standard military sights and once in a blue moon on a drop in scope mount (fits in the charger clip and backsight hole) with a Russian 8x56 scope on top. Garand slimg which I like over the original canvas webbing sling - much better for shooting offhand. Chambered in .303 Brit

Red
 

pierre girard

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Dec 28, 2005
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Hunter Lake, MN USA
British Red said:
Since we're talking Lee Enfields - heres mine

leeenfield21hh.jpg


Lee Enfield No.4 Mk II. Sporterised stock it came with and (in the picture) Parker Hale apperture sights. I sometimes run it with standard military sights and once in a blue moon on a drop in scope mount (fits in the charger clip and backsight hole) with a Russian 8x56 scope on top. Garand slimg which I like over the original canvas webbing sling - much better for shooting offhand. Chambered in .303 Brit

Red

Great looking piece. I had a very nice sportorized .303 at one time. Fella had made the stock out of a walnut tree that was growing in his yard. Very nice burl. Unfortunately the bore was worn and you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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pierre girard said:
Great looking piece. I had a very nice sportorized .303 at one time. Fella had made the stock out of a walnut tree that was growing in his yard. Very nice burl. Unfortunately the bore was worn and you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it.

I like her - shes old and has a few dings, but the bore is pristine & she'll print 6" at 300 yards if I do my part. Ammo is thin on the ground other than military ball these days but I have a press and a set of dies so its no big problem. Do like your Mauser I must admit, but I'm a sucker for nice old military r****s.

Was down the range the other day (don't guess you have to bother with ranges too much ?) and the chap on the next position was making smoke (as we call black powder). It was an original 1877 Martini Henri Carbine in .451 :eek:

What a nice man - saw me gawking and it was "want to swap r****s for a bit?" Does a bear sh** in the woods? Lovely gun - he also has an original Baker but I have yet to be on the range when it gets an outing - one day though :D

Red
 

Doc

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Nov 29, 2003
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Perthshire
My father in law used to have a Lee Enfield with the sporterised stock. I never tried it but I'm old enough to have spent several happy hours on the range with an issue Lee Enfield as a cadet.

Interestingly, despite the hundred year old design, the Lee Enfield is still standard issue to a military unit today - apparantly the Canadian Rangers still use them for their 'sovereignty patrols' in the far north. I understand that they are very reliable in the cold.
 

pierre girard

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Dec 28, 2005
1,018
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71
Hunter Lake, MN USA
Doc said:
My father in law used to have a Lee Enfield with the sporterised stock. I never tried it but I'm old enough to have spent several happy hours on the range with an issue Lee Enfield as a cadet.

Interestingly, despite the hundred year old design, the Lee Enfield is still standard issue to a military unit today - apparantly the Canadian Rangers still use them for their 'sovereignty patrols' in the far north. I understand that they are very reliable in the cold.

Most military bolt actions are fool proof in the cold - one big advantage. I've had self loaders freeze up on me in cold weather conditions, and lever actions can become very slow in cold weather.

BR: Sounds like a fun shoot. When I was young, a lot of civil war issue firearms (including M 1853 Brit Enfields) were still around. In more recent years I've hunted with flintlock reproductions. A friend just purchased a M 1853 Brit Enfield, found in a warehouse in Canada, which had never been fired! It looks "new in the box," and when I first saw it _ I thought it was a reproduction.

We do have a gun range close by, but I just go to a nearby gravel pit. Costs $50 a year to belong to the local gun club. I am a member (through work) of a gun club near the county seat, but it is a ways to go.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,750
1,998
Mercia
pierre girard said:
. A friend just purchased a M 1853 Brit Enfield, found in a warehouse in Canada, which had never been fired! It looks "new in the box," and when I first saw it _ I thought it was a reproduction.
.
:eek:

Why is it never me?

A fella I got to know at Bisley (the UK national range), put me onto a store that hand found a stock of Ishapore No5 L-Es (the old "Jungle Carbine"). They still had the brown paper on them! Of course, when I called a day later they were all gone :( One day though - one day (That said the short barrel on the old .303 does make it a bit of a shoulder muncher :D )

Funny isn't it - its kind of like Doc says - you remember the "classics". I've shot any number od SLRs, FALs AR15s etc. and, whilst all very competent in their way, none were "memorable". The first time I had a try with a rolling block though or a Sharps - wow :cool:

I haven't ever tried black powder hunting though - I do envy you that!

Red
 

Spacemonkey

Native
May 8, 2005
1,354
9
52
Llamaville.
www.jasperfforde.com
My dad has a Parker Hale conversion of a SMLE 4 chambered for 7.62 NATO. Very accurate and set up as a target shooter with aperture sights. He also has a Long Lee Enfield of Boer war extraction, a WW1 Lee, and a WW2 Lee, all original and good shooters. But black powder is his thing and he also has a genuine Sharps Target Rifle ( I have a .3gp video of me shooting this but photobucket doesn't include the sound.. Grr... http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g...t=RedneckHeaven.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1 ), a Snider in .577, 2 and 3 band Enfield muzzle loaders and one with a trap door breech, and countless other rifles including a genuine Martini Henry in .577/.45 which 'officially' is mine and shoots like a dream, albeit a bloody loud, kicking dream. Also included in the collection is a Walker Colt repro, and various Navy and Army Colts, and a brace of target/duelling pistols designed by that Byron cad. The old boy is contemplating boar hunting with the Martini later this year. Well should do the job better than the local's shotguns, and at least he can use the bayonet if he messes things up....
 

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