Why does it seem Americans shoot bows with heavier draw weights?

[Handmade Matt]

Hey guys.
I've just bought my first bow and am really excited to start using it. The guys in my local shop were really helpful.
I took their advice and ended up leaving with a bow that has a 24lbs draw weight despite expecting to buy something more powerful and them even starting me on 22lbs on their little range.
Searching around again online it appears in the US this would considered very underpowered with many people even starting youth on more powerful bows.

Is this just because they are "Americans," no offence intended, haha.:AR15firin

Or are there other reasons? Are their lbs different from ours for example?
Thanks guys

 

[scarfell]

Same reason they like muscle cars and anti-aircraft guns for self defence?

 

[oldtimer]

UK = targets, US= killing game?

 

[Muskett]

I'm no bow expert.
Not really as it depends on what you are trying to acheive.
High powered bows are hard to master, send their arrows a long way, and tend to destroy the arrows fast. Better to have a lower power while you learn what you are doing. For target use there isn't much point in having excessive power.

Bow hunting in America is huge with extended shooting seasons just for such tools. A hunting bow with efficient hunting arrows are a very effective hunting method in the right hands. Best shot placement gives a lethal "bleed our" result that is comparable to a rifle shot. Most of the power thing is to give a flatter trajectory, a decent range, the power to penetrate, and to deliver catastrophic damage including shock to the vital organs. No different to having a powerful gun. However, power is no substitute for accuracy as its accuracy that brings home the bacon.

Every Bow style and weight of draw is catered for though you might see the more macho high powered hunting kit advertise more prominently. Their compound bows are the state of the art and deliver a heavier arrow at a higher velocity to the target very efficiently, and most importantly very accurately in the right hands. Skill level remains high but a lot of the built in difficulty has been removed so that most people can with some practice get to a competent level. Of important note is the draw weight must be suited to what an individual can control. It all goes very wrong when someone tries to use something beyond their own strength as they can't "hold it there".

Funnily the Red Indians took down their buffalo with pretty low powered bows shot at very close range. In fact powerful hunting bows are a very modern thing. Military bows came in two types too. Medium powered for accurate shot placement used by cavalry and the long bow for infantry. The new thought for the long bow was that is was used at far closer ranges than ever thought; musket range. All that power only gets through armour at 25-30m! The longer range use was to disable the horses, but the killing was done near on point blank with volume fire.

Another change to traditional thought has been which side the arrow goes! Sadly the skills were lost to the point modern methods may not be how they used to do it in times when it mattered.
I thought this was interesting, even if a bit controversial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk

Anyhow enjoy your new bow. As you get into the hobby you will find out what you like.

 

[neoaliphant]

i do remember in the childrens section at archery class , most of the bows were in the 24 to 28lbs, i think adults were in 32-45lbs ish range
but that was 25 years ago

In renactment archery they were all about 30lb, anything less and with a heavy renactment arrow you wouldnt get the accuracy to be safe

 

[dwardo]

I have shot lots of bows in varying weights over the years and I now prefer something around 35/40lb range.
If a flatter trajectory is needed then playing with arrow weight and spine will help.

I am not shooting often enough to build the muscle to shoot anything heavier. I am also not hunting deer so have no need for the extra power. I have 60/70lb bows which I can shoot for a giggle but after a dozen arrows I am twitching and wobbling all over the shop which is pointless and no fun.

 

[neoaliphant]

yep, not much point at all having wobble, i found that having longer limbs helped a lot as well in reducing wobble, even at same weight, i think i was on 40lbs in the end, i have a feeling toy shop bows were about 20lb from what i rememeber

OP mention of 22lbs seems very low draw weight, was that at 28"

 

[HillBill]

Best shot placement gives a lethal "bleed our" result that is comparable to a rifle shot.


. It all goes very wrong when someone tries to use something beyond their own strength as they can't "hold it there".

Modern broad heads are easily capable of putting a 2" hole clean through a deer... far more severe than a rifle shot.

With modern compound bows, there is a let off at the end of the draw, making very easy to hold it there once full drawn. I can hold a 70lb draw weight at full draw with one finger without much trouble on a properly set up compound bow. Though, generally for compounds you use a trigger thing thats strapped to your wrist and you just squeeze the trigger to release the shot.

 

[MikeLA]

UK = targets, US= killing game?

thats what I was going to write after reading first post. Guess we need an American to reply who hunts large game deer/boar etc

 

[Muskett]

Depends what rifle you use, but I think the point is made that bow hunting can be humane. It is illegal in the UK, though not in some European countries such as France.
Modern Compound bows are incredible machines. Starting the draw can require quite an effort until the cams kick in. The trigger systems make for reliable release. Holding it there can just be holding such a contraption steady. All very sophisticated, where good technique and practice pays dividends.
Robin Hood learnt the skill.
A great sport in its own right.

 

[Steadfast]

Novice archers are encouraged to start on low poundage bows to build muscle mass and muscle memory before moving up the poundages (which can be an expensive process with a recurve bow!). The finest recurve archery nation in the world (Korea) start their kids out without them being allowed to touch a bow for the first six months, then drawing a bow without an arrow for the next 6 months before they're finally allowed to shoot an arrow after a year of practice. My son did considerable musculoskeletal damage building up the poundage too fast and training for national competition. Compound bows alleviate some of the issues and are much better for hunting with due to the massively higher arrow speeds as well as the poundage, though of course it's illegal to shoot even a rat in this country using a bow. I've only just joined this forum, but both my lad and myself competed in the European field archery champs in Finland ten years back and one day I must get round to flogging my kit, which has been gathering dust for several years now!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Jared]

There are state laws dictating the minimum draw weight for a hunting bow are around 40lb

 

[Robson Valley]

Bows, including crossbows, are divided into 5 legal categories for archery hunting in British Columbia.
These differences apply to the various species, about 14, from Bison to Wolverine.
The 2 cross bow categories must have pulls of not less than 150lbs and 120lbs.

The heaviest bow class (E) is for Bison:

"For bison, the bow (does not include compound crossbow) must have a pull no less than 22.6kg/50lbs within the archer's draw length,
an arrow greater than 26g/400grains in weight, and a broadhead greater than 8.1g in weight and 2.2cm/7/8" at its widest point."

Class D is a longbow, recurve or compound, good for everything else (moose/deer/cougar/etc) with a pull of no less than 40lbs with the 7/8" minimum broadhead.

If our paleo peoples had ever been particularly skilled at killing bison with a bow & flint arrows, we would never find so much evidence
of far more sophisticated harvesting methods. Buffalo jumps and hidden corrals. Done deal with good spears.

 

[Handmade Matt]

Hey everyone, some great replies here. Thanks.
Surely not all archers in America is a hunters though?

 

[Robson Valley]

No, archery clubs all over the continent. Some are there to punch paper, some like the wildlife model targets and some stay in tune for the hunting seasons.
The big club in the city nearest to me has some indoor place so they shoot all winter, as well. I drive by their outdoor range = all sorts of distances.
My next door neighbor is a bow hunter (moose, deer, bear) and very good at it but he must practice somewhere out in the country. Very successful hunts in Africa, too.

 

[Robson Valley]

Paleo peoples didn't harvest bison one at a time as the animals move in herds.
To feed the village, such as Wanuskewin, bulk harvest had to be the standard procedure.

Imagine the stone runway cairns to hide the hunters run out 1-2 miles from the jump.
The concept is to gently push the bison down the lane towards the jump.
At the end, you need a stampede with no turning back.

The first ones are crippled in the fall.
Then the next ones belly-flop the first ones and get gored in the process.
After the last ones leap, walk around with spears and finish off the cripples and wounded.

Be careful: bison are aggressive and homicidal towards people. By the end of 2 years, the
ones on the local ranch weigh 1,500 - 2,000 lbs.

Corrals hidden in bluffs of trees might hold a few that could be speared by waiting hunters.

 

[Chui]

No, archery clubs all over the continent. Some are there to punch paper, some like the wildlife model targets and some stay in tune for the hunting seasons.
The big club in the city nearest to me has some indoor place so they shoot all winter, as well. I drive by their outdoor range = all sorts of distances.
My next door neighbor is a bow hunter (moose, deer, bear) and very good at it but he must practice somewhere out in the country. Very successful hunts in Africa, too.

- well, not 'those' kind of hunting trips..........but moons ago, there was a tribe in Kenya, the Waliangulu, from Tsavo region who hunted elephant and big game with the most overbuilt bows. They were easily 150lbs+ and stories go back to some men splitting themselves open to pull these bows. The hunters were highly skilled in tracking and would have to get rather close to release the arrow which were heavily built themselves with detachable heads and loaded with a poison (from tree bark boiled down for hours).

Let's also not forget that human remains / archaeological digs (in Britain and Europe) from those times have proven the deformity of bowman's upper bodies..........how the left arm bent and the right arm was massively powerful - they also learnt the ability to open the chest and compress the back to aid the pulls.

- amazing what was done in the name of defense and food gathering!

 

[Robson Valley]

True. I can't help but wonder if the bows might have had lighter pulls with better arrows and modern broadheads.
With that sort of power in the pull, the technology of the bow strings must have been remarkable for that day and time.

In any case, horses didn't appear in North America until the Spanish conquistadors came in the early 1500's. Then, it took more than
3 centuries for the native people to have horses as far north as Canada. Before that, you walk.
The earliest wild horses became extinct before the big wave of immigration came across Beringia.

Consequently, buffalo jumps on the prairies were used for many thousands of years.
Head-Smashed_In shows some 6,000 years of use.
The village of Wanuskewin was occupied for some 6,000 years as well, there's a jump maybe 1/2 mile(?) to the south.

 

[Muskett]

North America, the horse made a huge difference and another method to bison hunting.
Traps have always been an effective method, even those with an arrow firing device.

African pigmies use a small bow to deliver a highly poisonous tipped arrow. It doesn't take much to pierce the lungs to allow for running down game. All over the place people used bows to shoot birds, some arrows just had heavy tips that got the job done. Fishing too. Lots of uses to feed the family.

We have been using bows for ever it seems, and unlikely to give up using them for a while yet. Don't forget the bow drill for making fire. We just love shooting, be it arrows, bullets, darts or golf balls. Beats football.

 

[Robson Valley]

No, horses were incidental to bison hunting. But go ahead, ride off several miles and hope you can stick enough flint tipped arrows into one (who wiill not be standing still for your benefit) to eventually kill it. Now you have to do all the butchering and get it all home. All of it, maybe 1,500lbs or more. Actually, I think that such a hunt could be arranged near my place. Well, 10 minutes away.
I have been hunting on that bison ranch with a cheque book for the past 15 years. Happy to pay to get it all done.

At the same time, camp scouts come running in to say they've seen a herd of bison coming this way.
Which is the direction of our bison jump. We split into two groups to get around behind the herd.
No panic, just make them nervous enough to keep moving. Lots of men are hiding, one behind each of the stone cairns
(made from the millions of glacial erratics left behind all over the landscape.) They join in as the herd moves by.

The push ends with a stampede over the cliff. The hunt ends with some 50-100 bison dead and in a place where they can be butchered and dried.

Here in BC with the predominance of forests, travel on foot remained common. Travel by water in dugout canoes was common.
Judging by the evidence in middens, most local tribes were predominately fish eaters. White-man's logging created the "edges"
and regenerated clearings to support moose and deer population increases.