What IS the best bushcraft Jacket?

[John Fenna]

I have tried the Morgedal - The pocket positions are not my favorite.
I try to avoid cammo so the surplus stuff is not a winner for me either....
I will stick with Ventile for the while - I love Ventile - it is just a shame the Bison do not do their Smock (SAS style) any more... I only have one of those left!

 

[rg598]

I had/have a lot of goretex jacket. Some are less noisy than others...but all are more noisy than polycotton, wool or cotton without membrane. If you go for hunting, it is too noisy.

Even the best ones could not deal with your sweat when you have a rucksak and walk faster than 900 yd/hour. It is far more confortable to have a jacket without membrane and a thin weatherproof jacket "just in case". Of course with climbing equipment you could not change your jacket, so goretex (or eVent, Precip...) is the norm.


(sorry my english is basic, not easy to explain more).

I hunt in GoreTex and haven't had any issues.

I'm also not sure why one would wear their shell jacket when hiking if it's not raining. My jacket is a GoreTex shell. If it is not raining or snowing, I keep it in my pack. If it is raining, I put the jacket on, and in those conditions it is far better than a soft shell. When the rain stops, I take the jacket off. I don't think these days anyone wears a jacket that is combination of insulation and shell (at least I haven't seen any in a long time). I have my insulation layers, and then I have my shell jacket, which I use only when the conditions require it.

As far as the DAS Parka, Primaloft has been pretty standard fill for mountaineering jackets for a long time. I use mine for everything from mountaineering to backpacking.

I think sometimes we make the mistake of trying to have one piece of clothing do everything. It just doesn't work that way, and any modern clothing system takes that into account. You have your non-waterproof insulation layers and then you have your waterproof shell. You only wear your shell when you need it. Your belay jacket goes on top of all the layers to dry them out during non-active periods.

 

[sunndog]

Gotta say 99% of my hunting is at night and any synthetic coat i'v had sounds like someone eating a packet of crisps to my ears, i cant bear even the slightest noise

 

[Kilbith]

I hunt in GoreTex and haven't had any issues.

Different experience.
Here, very few people have goretex for hunting (expensive, noisy, difficult to wash, sweaty....). Only some hunter in high mountain (because they want a "all in one", no vegetation and chamois are far from the hunter) generally not the "local hunter" (not enough money). Also in flat land some "sitting hunter" (they don't move) in a hunt, not the "walking hunter" who walk trough the bush (in this kind of hunt you have already a lot of noise from the dogs behind the wild boar : noise of goretex is not a problem)

I'm also not sure why one would wear their shell jacket when hiking if it's not raining.

Wind! (toundra, high mountain)
Humidity (small rain, fog, cloud...you don't need a sweaty hardshell)
Bush (when hunting).

 

[rg598]

Different experience.
Here, very few people have goretex for hunting (expensive, noisy, difficult to wash, sweaty....). Only some hunter in high mountain (because they want a "all in one", no vegetation and chamois are far from the hunter) generally not the "local hunter" (not enough money). Also in flat land some "sitting hunter" (they don't move) in a hunt, not the "walking hunter" who walk trough the bush (in this kind of hunt you have already a lot of noise from the dogs behind the wild boar : noise of goretex is not a problem)


Wind! (toundra, high mountain)
Humidity (small rain, fog, cloud...you don't need a sweaty hardshell)
Bush (when hunting).

I'm, not saying that you should hunt in GoreTex. I'm just saying that the reasons you are giving for why people shouldn't hunt in it are not particularly great, and around here people hunt in GoreTex all the time. It is not particularly noisy (makes much less noise that the person themselves when moving), if used properly it is not sweaty, and it washes very, very easily (way more easily than polycotton, ventile, etc).

I have to say, I really don't understand what jackets you have in mind. Modern GoreTex jackets are pretty much just a shell. You put them on when needed on top of your other clothing, and you take them off when you don't. I have no idea why you would have to wear your rain jacket when it is cloudy or humid or when hunting in the bush (unless it is raining). You can certainly use it as a wind shirt if you needed it, but if your insulation layers have a softshell shell, like most fill based ones (Nano Puff) in my case, you don't need it for that either. If it is so windy that you definitely need to put on your GoreTex shell, then moisture should not be that much of an issue.

Wearing a polycotton jacket as your shell layer, which will do nothing to protect you from rain, just because it may be more comfortable when you want to use it as a wind shirt, doesn't suit my needs. If I was worried about wind, and I though my other layers would be inadequate, I would just bring a 4oz wind shirt in addition to my GoreTex jacket. A Softshell however, in my opinion, is a poor replacement for proper rain gear.

 

[NoName]

spring/autumn; Swanndri Ranger
winter: Swanndri Hooded bush shirt
summer; cotton canvas shirt ex army

 

[Corso]

tweed is a good option

 

[santaman2000]

I still find it amusing that there's a separate category for "bushcraft" jackets. Kinda like asking what's the best knife. We haven't even been able to agree on a definition of bushcraft itself.

 

[Kilbith]

@rg598

The question was about a "bushcraft" jacket...so something for the forest, fire, perharps woodcrafting or hunting.

If I want to hike fast and light, I will adopt other options...but I will try to avoid as possible to have my goretex jacket until It rain seriously. Except when I know that I couldn't adjust layer (ex : technical Climbing) : In this situation you must have always the same shell (and you accept to sweat).

In normal mountain hiking (until 3000m/9000ft) in summer I prefer a wind layer with pockets and something confortable under the sun. If I think It will be bad weather in winter, I prefer a light wind/repellent jacket (here Arktis, april, 2500 m just before bivouac under tarp. Little raining/sleet) until goretex is a necessity.

But If you prefer to chill in the wind (without shell) or to sink in your own sweat (even with Event or last Goretex membrane) if you hike a little hard, to bring only an hardshell is good. 25 years ago I used to hike in "full goretex", but since that time I have take some experience. Of course nowadays I bring some kind of goretex in mountain, but very thin (less than 300g, 10 oz) and I use it not very often.

For bushcraft/hunting/hiking in flat forest, I prefer something confortable with a lot of pockets, very quiet and more fire/bush resistant (and I keep laminate poncho like fjallraven in my bag most of the time). Weight and speed is not a priority. So polycotton is a good option, but I like also ventile or wool. This is also my experience.

Different people, different ways to do...When I was a young guy, I was interested in "fancy things" and "marketing promess", not now.

[EDIT] : more explanations, less photo.

 

[rg598]

I also think we have a different definition of "bushcraft".

 

[MikeLA]

I Never wear goretex unless it raining. Generally a rucksac strap will wear away the proofing and I want to avoid this as much as possible. In the UK up ben Nevis or Scarfel I have worn shirts or a thermal or a sweashirt (one of those only) on the move.

When I stop its a quick put on of usually a Buffalo or Sleeka until i move off again.

See i lot of people in the Lake District even on a bright sunny day Wearing a Goretex Jacket (strange to me at least)

 

[Robson Valley]

I don't believe that there's a "do-all" jacket or coat. Even hunting, I pick out the gear for the location
and hunt (waterfowl, upland game birds, big game).
I'm far better dressed for any sort of WX from +35C to -30C by selecting the appropriate layers.
Mind you, having to carry all on your back puts a premium on versatility.

 

[Rorschach]

Another attempt at threadomancy I suppose, but here it goes

After roughly 25 years of trying and buying different membrane jackets, mostly gore variants, and losing literally a fortune in the process, I've finally found what works for me. It's gabardine cotton and ventile cotton in different combinations and either one or two layered.

Before the revelation of finding these cotton based options, I had very many bad experiences with a large number of membrane jackets from many different manufacturers...gore membranes getting ripped, punctured, melted. For example, a highly expensive gore shell that I had just bought for an extensive field work trip in New Zealand got totally destroyed in less than a week by a nice local plant called 'bush lawyer'. Similarly, bad experiences related to sparks and fire, or the membranes getting delaminated on their own, or getting surprisingly quickly worn out to the resemblance of sieve (at the shoulders in particular) even without any outside "help". Also, none of them, and can I stress the word NONE are really breathable under anything but very gentle exertion. That is a huge minus in my book. Very few membrane jackets resemble anything that could be called silent. And finally, all of them contribute to the micro plastic environmental problem.

In my extensive experience, if there ever was a grossly overrated fabric, it is definitely gore and other similar membranes. Unfortunately I was stupid enough to be part of that choir for a very long time. The only use for gore and other membranes that I can still see is as a removable liner for something else, i.e. in extremely heavy rain a gore liner under a single layer ventile could be useful. That way its use, and thus the rate it wears out or the risk that it gets torn/punctured is minimized.

 

[Billy-o]

Fourteen years ago! This thread is fourteen years old. I know thirteen year olds who weren't even born when this started.

I don't want to ding off too much about goretex and the like, but I think it depends on the weather, Rorschach. On the west coast of Canada it rains ... and rains and rains and rains and rains and it doesn't stop and when looks like it is going to stop it just finds a second wind and gets right back to raining on you personally and heavily and at various angles. Goretex is the only thing then and if you get a super reinforced coat like from Arcteryx or Norrona you'll be fine .. they are like personal tents some of those things .. the Trollveggen and the Alpha SV ranges are. I would add though that Helly Hansen do make a terrific and cheap PU jacket. But you are right, it melts and tears and you have to be careful

As for general knocking about among the the brambles and branches, the Canadian combat jacket takes a lot of beating. Like a cross between a UK army smock and the M65, it is both heavier and less pocketed than the smock. It is nevertheless warm and well organized, and of course you can wear things over it and under it. But I mean for more or less localized activity .. standing around, watching a fishing rod or a fire, with pockets, in Spring, that sort of thing .. not the hiking along part. I like the look of the Austrian combat jacket you see around .. closer fitting and so forth.

The idea of goretex under a jacket defeats me conceptually, but then I have never tried it in practice. It seems the outer layer will just wet out and stop the goretex breathing (and get heavy). Might as well put a poly bag over the outside of your jacket. But like I say. I have never tried it. On the other hand I see a lot of people with a downie over a goretex shell, lots, so my guess is there must be a logic. I have bunch of different goretex coats of different weights and sizes for layering, or not.

 

[Rorschach]

Fourteen years ago! This thread is fourteen years old. I know thirteen year olds who weren't even born when this started.

I don't want to ding off too much about goretex and the like, but I think it depends on the weather, Rorschach. On the west coast of Canada it rains ... and rains and rains and rains and rains and it doesn't stop and when looks like it is going to stop it just finds a second wind and gets right back to raining on you personally and heavily and at various angles. Goretex is the only thing then and if you get a super reinforced coat like from Arcteryx or Norrona you'll be fine. I would add that Helly Hansen though do make a terrific and cheap PU jacket. But you are right, it melts and tears and you have to be careful

As for general knocking about among the the brambles and branches, the Canadian combat jacket takes a lot of beating. Both heavier and less pocketed than the UK army smock, it is nevertheless warm and well organized, and of course you can wear things over it and under it. But I mean for more or less localized activity .. standing around, watching a fishing rod or a fire, with pockets, that sort of thing .. not the hiking along part.

The idea of goretex under a jacket defeatls me conceptually, but then I have never tried it in practice. It seems the outer layer will just wet out and stop the goretex breathing (and get heavy). Might as well put a poly bag over the outside of your jacket. But like I say. I have never tried it. On the other hand I see a lot of people with a downie over a goretex shell, lots, so my guess is there must be a logic.

Sure, I've been in the Vancouver area rains Toured Vancouver Island and went across the mountains to east back in 2004. Got very heavy rains on us during that trip.

The thing with gore and others is that the waterproof quality does not last long. Also, with virtually any physical activity, you'll be soaking wet from your own sweat in no time, cause the membranes simply don't breathe anywhere close enough. That happened to me countless times. In my mind gore is only for standing still, not for doing anything active.

I do not know the Canadian combat jacket but sounds like a good one for tougher stuff. I have British SAS type smocks made of gabardine or ventile for similar uses, one is actually made of ripstop polycotton.

I haven't tried it either, yet, but the idea of a gore liner underneath a single layer ventile is the same as in double ventile. Single layer isn't even supposed to be waterproof, double layer is. Yet both of them are very breathable. So a gore liner would greatly reduce breathability compared to a double layer ventile.

Horses for courses of course and your experiences of gore have clearly been better than mine.

 

[Billy-o]

Possibly it is an expectations thing ... skiing, running or whatever uphill in a goretex jacket you are going to get wet from sweat. But the point is that it will evaporate away. Whereas with PU it just stays put and you get sodden (and cold) from the inside out.

The other thing is that goretex keeps doing what it does no matter what. It is the DWR treatment that needs looking after and it is true that if you allow that to wear out or the jacket to get too dirty, the goretex stops working and you are back at square one in a poly bag

 

[Rorschach]

Possibly it is an expectations thing ... skiing, running or whatever uphill in a goretex jacket you are going to get wet from sweat. But the point is that it will evaporate away. Whereas with PU it just stays put and you get sodden (and cold) from the inside out.

The other thing is that goretex keeps doing what it does no matter what. It is the DWR treatment that needs looking after and it is true that if you allow that to wear out or the jacket to get too dirty, the goretex stops working and you are back at square one in a poly bag

I am starting to think that a stripped down gaberdine shell that has a well maintained DWR over a goretex liner/jacket should work .... for a while at least. I got there in the end

In my experience the moisture from sweating doesn't sufficiently evaporate away with membrane products. It has been a big disappointment time and again. Here's where cotton based fabrics are just miles better. There isn't really much of a comparison there. Regarding breathing and moisture evaporation, membrane jackets are much closer to PU jackets than to ventile or similar.

Yes, I am aware of the importance of laundering a membrane jacket with correct detergents and also of the role of the jacket's surface layer and DWR but it is not just that. With time, also the membranes get's less and less waterproof. Much quicker than hoped for.

Perhaps I sound a bit too grumpy and negative about membrane products. It's mainly because I am angry at myself, having ****** away such a large sum of money during a long time, before realizing what actually works for me

 

[Janne]

If you sweat you are doing something wrong......

To much clothes for the physical level of exercise.

Next time you start to sweat, unbutton/unzip, or remove.

Cool with a 14 year old thread.
Just shows we all are slow learners, and the manufacturers even more so!

 

[Billy-o]

You can't always avoid sweating, or even want to. Skiing laps off piste, there's no way you aren't going to sweat, and if the snow falling is a bit warm, you will need the goretex otherwise you'll be soaked through. Fell running, fast hiking, climbing, it's all the same; high output means you are going to sweat. And, if there is weather, you need to keep it out so the mechanics of drying can work effectively

Sweating is only a problem (but then it can be a serious problem) if you are wearing the wrong fabrics in your clothes in the wrong climate; that is to say fabrics which absorb and hold onto the sweat with no wicking function to get it away from your body and outside the temperature envelope created by your base/mid layers and jacket.

 

[Janne]

But you know, there was a time before Goretex and synthetics...

And people did far more physical (sweat inducing) work outside than today.
Dress smart, stay as dry as you can.