The End of Internet Knife Sales. Law change could target one-hand opening folders

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Fadcode

Full Member
Feb 13, 2016
2,857
894
Cornwall
Unfortunately its things like that that give the government the ammunition that they need to push these proposed laws through
 

Samon

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 24, 2011
3,970
44
Britannia!
Lol turbo snake? I see how we could easily cheat their proposals with vague content descriptions on our parcels. Always been a thing tbh, but soon a necessity I guess..

Thanks for the info guys. Aslong as there no instant change when many of us could have items bought pre ban etc then I guess we just wait and express concerns in the meantime to the right ears.

Peace
 

daveO

Native
Jun 22, 2009
1,453
513
South Wales
At the risk of upsetting people from the UK on here, I am afraid to say that the general populace has been silent on many matters of concern for too long, having spent many long periods away from the UK I was always shocked on my return to see the changes in the country and to often be told by the people I was with that I should not say certain things or air my views on sensitive subjects as I may "cause offence" to someone who may happened to overhear what I had said! Crazy situation!

The various firearm laws brought in to restrict their supply and use has not prevented people from having access to and using illegal firearms (regardless of what politicians say!) and tighter controls regarding the supply of knives will still not prevent people from accessing, carrying and using them as they wish. Most people can make a blade or shiv if they want to, at least with a legal sale there is a trail that could help if a crime is committed.

Well that is rather the point. You've basically contradicted your own arguement several times in your post. You think tighter controls on sales are bad but admit that it doesn't affect anyone in real terms. So what is the problem? You also say legal sales are preferred but don't think ensuring that all sales are legal is necessary?
 

daveO

Native
Jun 22, 2009
1,453
513
South Wales
Please help me understand something guys!? Does this proposed law change also include international purchases or just within the UK?

From the consultation documents:

We are also considering whether the offences should also apply to catalogue/mail order service sales of knives and to delivery services for knives ordered online from abroad.

From the impact assessment docements:

78. There is the potential for foreign ordered knives not to follow the UK regulations and their product may not be flagged when entering the country. This may provide a bias for people to try and order knives from abroad in order to try and circumvent the inconvenience or additional costs of UK shipped knives. This can lead to a competitive bias towards foreign based companies.

That's basically all we know at this stage.

My worry would be that it might end up being the legal responsibility of the purchaser to ensure that a restricted item bought from abroad is posted in the correct manner. This would mean that the person buying could be prosecuted for a retailer's mistake if they chuck 'knife' into Google translate and it comes up with turbo snake. Customs are bound to get more proactive in scanning parcels once this legislation is passed.
 
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Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
12,330
2,293
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
I was thinking really hard, but then I saw the 'in' in your sentence.

When are those proposed changes happening? Or is it just one of these suggestions they forgot as soon as it landed on their desks?
 

Klenchblaize

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 25, 2005
2,610
135
65
Greensand Ridge
I completely agree with this guy.
who the hell needs a 50.cal rifle? I would totally support banning them... Come to think of it, why should anyone need a gun? Isn't bushcraft about harmony with nature... Not blowing the crap out of innocent creatures!
We should all collectively back a ban on stupid non practical knives and fire arms.
I can only weep when I see such a post.

K

Ps: Just noticed thread post #. Must be a sign from above!
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,355
2,366
Bedfordshire
I don't shoot. I don't see anyone "needs" a 0.50...but then I don't drink alcohol, so none of you need to do that either...and I am never going to afford a Porsche, stupid ridiculously dangerously fast things...no one "needs" one of those! Oh...I think I could be on a roll...

With that in mind, I used all 250 of my allocated words in the consultation expressing my bafflement why the government are wasting time considering banning a firearm that has never been used in a crime, and is never likely to be used in a crime, and if it were used in a crime, would be a darned sight less deadly than all the illegal AKs that must be slipping past our patchy border controls. They had this same debate in the US, and it is hard to find any instances of anyone using such a rifle for a crime. I did hear that the IRA might have had one, and might have sent one guy to the US so he could be trained how to shoot it, but don't know if that was just rumour.

In fact, if they want to ban something with the aim of saving lives, there is a far greater precedent for banning men with beards from renting delivery vehicles. (I have a beard, so this would be annoying too).
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
Well that is rather the point. You've basically contradicted your own arguement several times in your post. You think tighter controls on sales are bad but admit that it doesn't affect anyone in real terms. So what is the problem? You also say legal sales are preferred but don't think ensuring that all sales are legal is necessary?

Actually what he was saying was that tighter controls have no real affect on anybody willing to break the law; only on the very people who don't need to be controlled.
 

Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
12,330
2,293
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
C-Clay, there is no difference between shooting a .22LR rifle and a .50 BMG rifle.
You aim and squeeze the trigger.
Recoil is much stronger of course, not unlike a 10 ga.

Sure you can hunt with it. But expensive cartridges, large meat destruction and penetration makes this impractical.
I guess you could handload it for less power though to make it milder.

To ban a rifle caliber only because of its size shows how little the decision makers understand, and that they do not listen to expert advice.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
C-Clay, there is no difference between shooting a .22LR rifle and a .50 BMG rifle.
You aim and squeeze the trigger.
Recoil is much stronger of course, not unlike a 10 ga.

Sure you can hunt with it. But expensive cartridges, large meat destruction and penetration makes this impractical.
I guess you could handload it for less power though to make it milder.

To ban a rifle caliber only because of its size shows how little the decision makers understand, and that they do not listen to expert advice.
I believe C-Clay was mostly being facetious but I'll let him answer that himself. Regarding hunting with a "50 Caliber" you have to remember there's more than one cartridge that's designated a 50 caliber. I suspect any new legislation wouldn't recognize that and would ban common hunting cartridges as well; cartridges that have been around and used for hunting for nearly a century and a half www.tremors.wikia.com/wiki/1874_.50_Sharps_Buffalo_Rifle
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,355
2,366
Bedfordshire
Janne,
I don't really understand why you posted. I thought it was pretty clear whether I was in favour of the proposed ban or not. If I am against a ban, I can't see why you are trying to persuade me of anything, and if I am for a ban, I cannot see why you would think such a weak argument would sway me.

Santaman,
Not sure if facetious is the right word, but derision, certainly. I don't think there is anything inappropriate with meeting the argument that it is okay to ban things because they are not "needed" with derision.
Not sure that the 0.50 Sharps type cartridges are used for hunting here. I have seen such things at ranges, but never heard of deer stalkers using them, and that is the only big game we have.


I hope everyone has filled in that consultation. I was up with my folks this passed weekend helping them to fill it in. In the end they said they would print it out, hand write it and mail it. The use of the internet and electronic form was too much for them at 70+ years old. This raises a good point, anyone we should probably all follow up with folk we have told about this consultation. I am sure that there are many who will care, but who have been stalled by the volume of Impact statements, and the manner of filling in the form.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
.....
Not sure if facetious is the right word, but derision, certainly. I don't think there is anything inappropriate with meeting the argument that it is okay to ban things because they are not "needed" with derision.
Not sure that the 0.50 Sharps type cartridges are used for hunting here. I have seen such things at ranges, but never heard of deer stalkers using them, and that is the only big game we have.......

Just in case I was misunderstood, was agreeing with you about meeting the argument with derision (my choice of words was indeed less accurate) My reference to the 50 Sharps was meant only as an example that those writing legislation rarely know much (if anything) more than the public perception even exists. .
 

Sundowner

Full Member
Jan 21, 2013
891
341
70
Northumberland
I am 63 yrs old. 64 in January. My dad gave me an old pen knife. I've had one in my pocket ever since. Nowadays it's an Opinel which is lockable and therefore illegal. And you know what? I don't give a monkey's about that stupid law. I'll carry one when they put me up the chimney. I went once through airport security and forgot to take off my leatherman and the security guy said to me. Put the leatherman into the tray Sir with a smile in his face. He hadn't seen it, only showed in the x-ray thingy and my face must have said it all
 
Jul 24, 2017
1,163
444
somerset
I don't shoot. I don't see anyone "needs" a 0.50...but then I don't drink alcohol, so none of you need to do that either...and I am never going to afford a Porsche, stupid ridiculously dangerously fast things...no one "needs" one of those! Oh...I think I could be on a roll...

With that in mind, I used all 250 of my allocated words in the consultation expressing my bafflement why the government are wasting time considering banning a firearm that has never been used in a crime, and is never likely to be used in a crime, and if it were used in a crime, would be a darned sight less deadly than all the illegal AKs that must be slipping past our patchy border controls. They had this same debate in the US, and it is hard to find any instances of anyone using such a rifle for a crime. I did hear that the IRA might have had one, and might have sent one guy to the US so he could be trained how to shoot it, but don't know if that was just rumour.

In fact, if they want to ban something with the aim of saving lives, there is a far greater precedent for banning men with beards from renting delivery vehicles. (I have a beard, so this would be annoying too).

Sorry Clay but if like me you want a decent mid life crisis you will need a Porsche! and at only 260 bhp it's mild :p ho I have the hairdresser / poor man's version :)
 
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