New kit day

[RE8ELD0G]

I will be doing just like that.
Winters here and then gradually getting colder in different countries before doing an Artic survival course.
Hopefully finding some like minded people in the process to join the trip.
The coldest winter trip is years in the making yet.
Got a long way to go before I even attempt that sort of temp.
I am not jumping into this blind and will do all I can to get ready for it.

But I'm not liking the sound of those trees.
Is there no forest in the far north areas??
Can't hammock without trees.

 

[Grotzilla]

A friend and I did Artic Norway in February this year. Tromso, Kvasloya and Skulsfjord, One night hit - 22°C! It was a great trip though and I would definitely recommend it, we're going again next February for a week in Skulsfjord. There's a few wooden lavvu's on the trails with log burners, we found one by a lake and had a day of ice fishing

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[RE8ELD0G]

Sounds amazing.
I really can't wait until next year for my first trip there.
Cant decide where to go first.
But it's a good bet it will be trolltunga just for the amazing views.

-22 sounds good.
I want to try my kit and see if I can be warm and comfy in my kit at those temps.

 

[Grotzilla]

I used a ray mears Canada Jay sleeping bag and I was not warm that night! Hahah I remember waking up at like 3am and having yo do star jumps in my sleeping bag

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[RE8ELD0G]

That's why I paid out so much for all the down quilts.
Even with the quilts I have I'm still going to be making another set of my own design to make absolutely sure I don't freeze to death
A jervens bag as well for emergency plus a whole host of merino, down and wool clothing.

 

[C_Claycomb]

For wool, Nordic Outdoor is good, but I have a real soft spot for The Norwegian Store in Keswick. No website that I can see anymore, but does mail order and some great gear. Last I looked they did Janus Merino.

Bear in mind that all that super lightweight warm gear is still going to add up to a lot of weight and bulk!

There is a reason that folk who are out in that environment either use cabins, or hot tent.

The sleeping bag will only hold in the heat that you have. If you get cold, all the down in the world won't make you warm.

In addition to going on courses, have you read the Conover's book? Either "The Winter Wilderness Companion: Traditional and Native American Skills for the Undiscovered Season", or "The Snow Walker's Companion". They are out of print, and can be a bit expensive, but there are few books with so much information about bush travel in deep cold.

 

[Grotzilla]

Yep wool is definitely your friend in that climate. My friend wore mostly synthetics and he was constantly overheating then removing layers and becoming to cold.

I can create a kit list for my next trip if you like, as I took far too many clothes last time! Lol

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[Janne]

Wool and silk.
The only humidity will be from your own sweating, so learn to layer. One layering when skiing/snowshoeing. One when doing duties around the camp. One when sitting still.

Unexperienced tourists die from hypothermia caused by excessive layering - sweating. Sweating caused by not taking layers off, and carrying unnecessary stuff.

No spare clothes, except one long sleeved cotton or silk skin close layer needed.
Yes you will smell after a few days. Yes it is fine.

In very cold temps it is not a good idea to do hammocking. You are surrounded by cold, moving air. A small, storm proof tent is better. If below -40 you do something we call a 'snow grave" or a tunnel into the snow. -45C outside, -5 inside.

The temperatures are 'real' temperatures, not adjusted for wind chill.

Get the best equipment, disregard the cost. For Arctic conditions I would recommend products from established Scandinavian companies, like Swedish Fjallraven or Haglofs.
Buy a fancy backpack made for normal European temperatures. Leave it outside closing off your snow tunnel. Feel how the plastic buckles snap when you take it on in the morning.

Scandinavian Mil grade equipment is developed to last under all conditions.

The most important is though, practice. Practice setting up the tent in sun. In darkness. In wind.
In rain.
Arctic bushcrafting is easy when the sun shines and there is no wind. 30 minutes later you might be in the middle of a snow storm.

Me and my guys retrieved several tourist where equipment failed. Where the tent blew away because the tent pegs were designed for earth.
Practice to navigate ( compass and map) in darkness.

 

[vestlenning]

But I'm not liking the sound of those trees.
Is there no forest in the far north areas??
Can't hammock without trees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnmarksvidda

 

[MartinK9]

Nice one, you've probably already read Pete's report:


https://bushcraftuk.com/community/i...ctic-winter-jokkmokk-abisko-6c-to-40c.104324/

Hammocking is possible.

 

[vestlenning]

Nice one, you've probably already read Pete's report:

https://bushcraftuk.com/community/i...ctic-winter-jokkmokk-abisko-6c-to-40c.104324/

Hammocking is possible.

Possible but as far as I recall all the well known outdoors men and women over here use tents in the winter.

 

[Robson Valley]

Use a tent with a floor. You must get out of the wind.
All the very best unknown trappers and winter hunters here use a tent.
Most traplines have simple line shacks with an Airtight heater (round wood).
They can run so hot you sleep with the door partly open.
Anybody can shelter in them at any time but never touch the goods left in there.

Nobody runs skiis, they get tangled in the forest understory (OK on a trail that's been cleared).
Snow machines and snow shoes. One trapper I know has a door in his roof. He needs it.
These are people who live on their traplines for weeks.

My best bag is a barrel = widest in the middle for me to wriggle around in. Have not been cold yet but I'm in a tent or shack.
Down on top, Holofill on the bottom which holds its loft even when damp and a down-filled tube inside against the zipper.
Before I need it, out of the stuff-sack. Into the clothes tumble dryer on air-fluff with beater balls to restore the loft.

 

[Janne]

You Brits must be hardier and tougher than us Swedes, Norwegians and Canadians!

Snowshoes are virtually unknown in Scandinavia. We all use skis.
In the area where he wants to go there grows Birch that struggles past 2 meters, Pine that struggles too. Juniper is usually boot high.

The skies I used in those days were about 1.60 long and about 10 cm wide.
Two poles, bamboo. Composite or Aluminium breaks to easily.

 

[Robson Valley]

If you have dry hard snow, if you have a forest with no dense understory, skis might be OK.
Not for professional outdoor people in my kind of boreal forest.

I have big (200lb) bear-paw snow shoes, they make me walk bowlegged and make my crotch ache. Not the same as a PITA.
I have 60" trailbreakers, just 10" wide, they are a dream for soft snow travel.
I wear knee high moose-hide moccasins with felt insoles and soft bindings on my shoes.

I have rebuilt Sherpa with aluminum frames and synthetic web, ice claws underneath for climbing. Need boots for those.

Janne, you need to watch snowshoe racing, next time you get up to Quebec.

 

[Janne]

No dense undergrowth not covered by snow where he plans to go. Small areas of forest close to the sea, low trees more inland. The sea moderates the climate.

It all depends on where he wants to go, how far inland.
Where I go and enjoy myself, we get a few degrees below 0 in mid winter. Across the fjord and mountains, in Sweden, they get maybe 30-45 C colder.

The mode of transportation, skis, was developed to suit the environment.
Before the invention of snow mobiles ( thank you, Canadians!) the Same used skis, and our people the same.
With one long pole. A single, loose noose for the boot. Both the ski and boot noose were invented before the wheel.

Does the OP plan to trek across the country or on a tril on skis or snowshoes, or make camp a few km from a settlement?

Different equipment needed!

 

[RE8ELD0G]

OK thanks for all the input folks.
The only plan I have so far is to go....... Somewhere in Norway.

Ausust 2019, trolltunga for a long weekend hiking and hammocking.

January 2020. We want to head north.
Artic circle preferably but more importantly is to see the northern lights and Again hammock so need proper trees.

Sometime in the future.
After more kit buying, testing and an artic survival course.
Plus hopefully meeting up with a few people who have been there before.
We want to go somewhere........ Very cold.
And with woods to hammock in.

Getting into those areas and hiking/skiing or snowshoe is dependent upon where we can find to suit our hammock needs. Then we can plan on transportation and logistics whilst there.

Our hammocks have socks or outer layers like tents so do a fair job of keeping us out the winds.
Coupled with our tarps with doors.
We should be able to stay out of the worst of it. (if the tarps stay pegged down that is lol)

Snow holes for emergency or preferable being close to huts/booths in case of the ****.
Jervens bags and emergency bivi will also be carried.

 

[Tiley]

It sounds like a great trip and an exciting one, too. I would pay very close attention to what Janne says - he obviously know a huge amount about the terrain, how best to get about and what will work best for you in that environment.

Needless to say, I am deeply envious. I loved my all-too-brief summer trip to Arctic Greenland; I'd love to do something similar in Norway, Sweden or Finland and then start building some winter experience.

 

[sunndog]

Hammocks are cooler for sure. But there's no reason you couldn't use a hammock in those temps

Check out the frozen butt hangs the US hammock forum guys do
Shug every has a few vids on it. I remember one where his thermometer tanked at -40

 

[Janne]

Everything depends on how much gear ( and weight) you want to carry.
I am a 'backpack' guy, so my gear and techniques are accordingly suited for that.

During my Army time, on some longer winter bush stints,( 2 weeks +) and some specific missions, we had to pull a pulka in addition to our back ( and frontal) packs, but the majority of the content was explosives and various ammo. One pulka per two man team.
I think the weight was about 150 kilos or so.
It was not pleasurable, specially not skiing downhill.

I am hugely geared towards safety, having participated in numerous SAR between 1979 and 1982 in the Swedish arctic area.

Sorry if I offend somebody.
Remember, you need very little experience and training to do well in a 'blue sky' environment. Any equipment can do.
The problems come when the weather turns. All SAR missions were due to the weather turning, and the people were mainly non Scandinavian tourists. Not used to the cold, the effects of the cold.

Living well outside Scandinavia there days I am not able to recommend or help with the courses that I think should be taken, but there are members here that can help, if they choose to do so.

Remember, a trip like that should be pleasureable, fun. Not a struggle.

 

[RE8ELD0G]

All I put is welcomed greatly.
I have a lot to learn.
Even kit recommendations and especially a good artic course that someone has been on or knows about.
Some of them are soo dam expensive and don't look much worth a penny.