layering; ancient and modern how is it done?

[Bert]

Hello,
when I was in the army '88 I was issued a uniform mostly consiting of 100% cotton and a woolen pullover.
then they explained how to wear it to be best protected for warm, wet or cold weather.

A lot has changed in all these years.

I've grown out of most of that stuff, other pieces are worn, and replaced with modern kit.
When I go out, I still use a lot of army kit, sturdy, comfortable, made for the job, and a bit of camo, that doesn't bother me.
BUT these day's there's a lot more plastics in the kit.
and nobody told me how to wear it (in which combinations) to be best protected for warm, wet or cold weather.
what I like to know, is there somebody who is/was in the services and knowing/willingly to instruct me?

for example, I got one of those brown t-shirts wicking or something, and I feel when I wear them in summer, they feel hotter than a regular cotton T-shirt, and besides, after wearing that one day, they stink!, I don't know how they are ment to be used?

I like to go out next winter and would be most gratefull to be warm and cosey.

Thanks for helping me out.

 

[tiger stacker]

Think of your layer clothing like a onion skin
Outer smock middle softy jacket not quite inner =fleece or ubac then tee shirt for next to skin
The new tees work for me, ubac are very popular ever in winter( don't ask) the evaporation process means your tee or ubac should keep your body temp down.
both versions of the softy jacket = wooly pooly jumper….

hope that helps

 

[John Fenna]

I personally like the old style wool (and cotton) more than I like the plastics and wear mostly naturals year round - they just seem to work better for me (and the planet) all year round.

 

[Bert]

@ Tiger stacker, these softies, you mean the olive/sand thicker vests, or the fleece inside and olive plastic outside with a kangaroo pocket on the belly?
and about the ubac's, I don't get the sizing, or too small or too big for me. (I got 180/112) the body of those, should they be tight, or loosy?
And is it normal those (I think they are the same material as the Ubac's body) t-shirts stink of transpiration after one day? (I never had that problem with corron T's!??)

@ John Fenna, I still like the wool / cotton but it seems to me that they get harder to get by these day's, and I never liked the wet sticky cotton t-shirts to the body, and they take some before they dry out,

and for example, the modern smock's, they are dry in a very short time, I really like that tissue.

 

[Janne]

Being of the generation that were brought up with natural materials, I still dress so.

Yes, cotton dries slower maybe ( not seen any scientific proof though) but it foes not start smelling after a day or so like the plastcs.

But if you sweat profusely so your body layer is wet, you are doing something wrong. The whole idea of layering is to adjust the layers according to your workload.
Take of a layer or two, so you do not sweat.
Us who are brought up in the Arctic learn this from the cradle. In winter, get sweaty and you can die.

 

[Bert]

Hello Janne,
I know, but I think that we misunderstand eachother, maybe I didn't wrote down correct, but I do not sweat that much, I bought those UKarmy T-shirts two years ago, and I wore them in winter to the skin, and didn't do much while wearing, (just kept indoors), and in summer just wore them a single layer to the skin, but in both cases in the evening when I took them of, they had a very unpleasant odor to them, (ok, I know that's my sweat.) and with no other T-shirt I've encountered that. (in the same circumstances) therefore I find that odd, and try to find out what I can do to learn the material better???
Maybe they have in the army a certain way to wear it so it won't stink so much???, or wear it only on maneuvre, so they embed very quickly with the wildebeast around them???)

And If you know, and would tell me more about clothing and behaving in artic situations could you please PM me ?
greatly appriciated!

 

[Janne]

PM me with questions!

 

[Janne]

Today we are not used to have the natural body aroma, as we all use scented soaps, deodorants and antiperspirants.

Remember, our body aroma consists of pheromones, which are there to attract the opposite sex. It sends out signals.

Us in my old unit spend up to three weeks in the bush, without washing.
Yes we smelled, but after about a week you stop smelling the smell.

Those synthetic undergarments were available thrn also, but we discovered they smelled much quicker and more than cotton.

 

[tiger stacker]

Today we are not used to have the natural body aroma, as we all use scented soaps, deodorants and antiperspirants.

Remember, our body aroma consists of pheromones, which are there to attract the opposite sex. It sends out signals.

Us in my old unit spend up to three weeks in the bush, without washing.
Yes we smelled, but after about a week you stop smelling the smell.

Those synthetic undergarments were available thrn also, but we discovered they smelled much quicker and more than cotton.

I was introduced to babywipes as your all over wash in the mid 90s… scentless soap was always on the to do list never ever got round to it though.
anyhow
softy jacket is khaki as is the kangaroo pouch version, the older reversible jacket is still out there ubacs wick away has been loose for me, others wear tee shirt underneath me i tend not to. Remember folk complained about kelly hansens stinking after a day or two too

hope this helps

 

[baggins]

Bert,
the laying system of today, is, as it always was. Multiple layers of varying thickness, that can be discarded or added as the temperature or activity dictates.
For warmth, it really is about the air trapped between the layers and the idea is for them to be as breathable as possible to allow the moisture to escape. Synthetics, while as breathable, will, cling onto the body odour. meaning they need to be washed more regularly thats why a lot of bushy folk wear wool, as they don't want to carry lots of changes of clothes.
The materials really depend on personal preference. Me; i like wool (even the modern, treated merino stuff). i know others prefer modern, synthetics such as under armour and the such. but i have a both cotton and synthetic work tees, and, even though the synthetic ones dry really fast and breath, the cotton ones are way cooler.

 

[Bert]

Baggins, yes, I have the same feeling about the cotton T's, last week we had a day or two of 38 degreeC here, and on such a occasion (before) I wore a poly T-shirt, even when they were almost white (light sand) of color, I was blasting hot! it didn't took long before I changed for a cotton one.
I wonder, should you stay with the system? i.e. wool/cotton, or poly/modern tissues?, or would a mix also be possible, for example merino underwear, and more modern (poly/cotton, or nyco mixes) on top? or could that be the cause of lots of static electricity when it freezes dry?

 

[Janne]

One material I love is silk. When I did long walks summertime for a week or two I preferred silk boxer shorts and silk innermost socks. No chafing. This was my civilian pleasure trips.
I do not recall any more odour than with cottons.
Silk is much much more affordable now, so try it.

Synthetics are wonderful as tent or shelter material, as backpack material. Plus the outer layer in sleeping bags.
Light, wear strong, water proof when designed so.

I like cotton as inner layer in the sleeping bag.

 

[baggins]

i guess it depends on what works for you. i can't see any issues with mixing the 2, but i just prefer more natural fibers. As Janne said, silk is lovely to wear next to the skin and, although i found it didn't breath amazingly well, it was cool and has a lovely feel. If you're not sure what to try, bag some cheep stuff on ebay, wear it, try it and move it on if you don't like it.

 

[Laurentius]

I have to say this current weather I do not wear a shirt at all, just factor 50 suncream.

 

[MikeLA]

I too joined the army in 1988 and still prefer wool and cotton. Still hanging on to an old JHW albeit 2 sizes bigger.

 

[Bert]

I'm sorry, JHW??? doesn't ring a bell here?

 

[MrEd]

I ram century got a couple of long sleeved ‘technical’ type tops for summer wear when working. I have noticed when I sweat in them when working in the heat, they get wet but dry very quickly in a breeze. They stink by the end of the day though.

Cotton long sleeve t shirt I sweat aswell but some how it doesn’t feel as ‘wet’ maybe?

I am unsure what to think of the modern ones, I want to try them in the winter as my base layer see how get fair. They do breathe very well.

 

[Janne]

Does anybody know why sweatinh in synthetics is more whiffy than in cotton or other natural materials?

 

[Janne]

Still in Norway.
Yesterday I went into our local small sportshop. Needed new bush shors as my old pair got soaked in fish blood and slime.

They also sell shirts, socks, outerwear, csps, gloves, made from wool.
Merino, normal wool.
All Norwegian brands.

Plus cotton.
Not much synthetics.

 

[Bert]

I think the Norwegeian are a more traditional people?
And actually, I'm not sure sure if all those technical plastic tissues REALLY are that much better then the traditional natural stuff?
I heard stories that for example goretex is quiet sweaty (if you are a bit active) and perhaps a barbour jacket (waxed cotton) has almost the same waterproofness, but breathes much better. for example, I have one of these Dutch 'parka bilaminaat' which is, I think one of the best raincoats there is, though when it's below zero, I really prefer to wear something else, because I get cold in them. (I guess it's the condensation, and so becoming wet on the inside.)