Environmental friendly choice of kit
- Thread starter Janne
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
Yes, me too:
I bought in my earlier twenties
just stuff of the earlier twenties!
I used to use stuff too before
mainly of the second world war
I think I will try as the next
an old anglo saxonian axe!
;0)
I bought in my earlier twenties
just stuff of the earlier twenties!
I used to use stuff too before
mainly of the second world war
I think I will try as the next
an old anglo saxonian axe!
;0)
Last edited:
Polyester sewing thread lasts far longer and is much stronger than cotton thread. That means that your garment doesn't fall apart as soon, so you don't need to repair or replace as often. Polyester mixed with cotton makes a fabric much more durable than cotton alone, again, requiring replacement less often. Same for wool blends. Which do you think is going to be more damaging, to continue to use the hard wearing synthetics that we already own, or binning them before they are worn out just to replace them with "friendlier" natural material garments? I don't know, but my gut suggest that it is better not to bin things prematurely.
As for which is better, going forward, or whether the micro fibres released by people washing their camping clothes can compare to the fibres and particles released by people throwing away single use food packaging, or washing daily clothing on an automatic regular schedule...that seems like it is almost unanswerable.
As for which is better, going forward, or whether the micro fibres released by people washing their camping clothes can compare to the fibres and particles released by people throwing away single use food packaging, or washing daily clothing on an automatic regular schedule...that seems like it is almost unanswerable.
Absolutely, we should use them to the end of their useful life, but maybe we should then replace thrm with something less environment damaging?
Cotton thread is strong, it was sucessfulky used for over a century before synthetics were invented. Strong enough.
I think it is important to buy good quality environmentally friendly items, use them with care, and use them until they can not be repaired anymore.
Cotton thread is strong, it was sucessfulky used for over a century before synthetics were invented. Strong enough.
I think it is important to buy good quality environmentally friendly items, use them with care, and use them until they can not be repaired anymore.
Cotton is just another one of those industrial products that has got us in the pickle we are in ... like corn and wheat. Seems that, at the moment, something like hemp/flax is less so. But, maybe that is just to do with it not being such a pervasive and dominating commodity. Making cellulose fibres for textiles like rayon or viscose from sources like bamboo also seems less potentially damaging .. .though I feel I really should know more about it before pontificating so freely 
.
I just read that 'true' canvas is made from hemp. Any reality in that?
.I just read that 'true' canvas is made from hemp. Any reality in that?
Last edited:
Canvas from hemp?
My guess: The early European sails made from canvas should have been made from flax or maybe wool, as I do not think hemp was grown in Europe.
Maybe hemp came after that, when trade with Asia developed?
Yes, modern Cotton growing is not so fantastic for nature, but when it decomposes it is fine. I suspect though that the natural fibers ( hemp, flax) are also grown using pesticides, fertilisers and so on. Unavoidable in an efficient agriculture.
Not sure how Organic growing of these is done.
Synthetics give a long term negative effect. Natural fibers do not.
I do not know myself how Viscose is in environmental impact. Maybe somebody else here can teach us! I know though that Viscose (bamboo fiber as start) is marketed cleverly as 'bamboo fiber' or even 'bamboo silk'.
Synthetics in some uses are not as long lasting as cotton. Nets and lines for marine use - properly treated cotton outlasts synthetics.
But it is high maintenance.
I have an old handline, made before synthetics became the norm, I use sometimes for fun. Given to me by my old friend, 91 years young.
It was made just after WW2. Even the hooks are that old.
After using, it needs to be spooled up on a special frame, desalinated in fresh water, dried, hooks oiled in. This process takes a couple of days, it dries slowly.
After several used and cleans, it needs to be preserved using some kind of tree tar oil. ( not done that yet myself).
It is the only handline I use, as it is nicer on my soft city hands than a nylon line. Maybe 4 times a year. But he used it about one day a week for more than 50 years. He had/had maybe 10 of these lines, as they have to be rotated in use.
Buying a synthetic item of excellent quality and using it for decades - nothing wrong with that. But people tend to buy cheap stuff that does not last. Buy, use, throw away. Landfill in best case.
My guess: The early European sails made from canvas should have been made from flax or maybe wool, as I do not think hemp was grown in Europe.
Maybe hemp came after that, when trade with Asia developed?
Yes, modern Cotton growing is not so fantastic for nature, but when it decomposes it is fine. I suspect though that the natural fibers ( hemp, flax) are also grown using pesticides, fertilisers and so on. Unavoidable in an efficient agriculture.
Not sure how Organic growing of these is done.
Synthetics give a long term negative effect. Natural fibers do not.
I do not know myself how Viscose is in environmental impact. Maybe somebody else here can teach us! I know though that Viscose (bamboo fiber as start) is marketed cleverly as 'bamboo fiber' or even 'bamboo silk'.
Synthetics in some uses are not as long lasting as cotton. Nets and lines for marine use - properly treated cotton outlasts synthetics.
But it is high maintenance.
I have an old handline, made before synthetics became the norm, I use sometimes for fun. Given to me by my old friend, 91 years young.
It was made just after WW2. Even the hooks are that old.
After using, it needs to be spooled up on a special frame, desalinated in fresh water, dried, hooks oiled in. This process takes a couple of days, it dries slowly.
After several used and cleans, it needs to be preserved using some kind of tree tar oil. ( not done that yet myself).
It is the only handline I use, as it is nicer on my soft city hands than a nylon line. Maybe 4 times a year. But he used it about one day a week for more than 50 years. He had/had maybe 10 of these lines, as they have to be rotated in use.
Buying a synthetic item of excellent quality and using it for decades - nothing wrong with that. But people tend to buy cheap stuff that does not last. Buy, use, throw away. Landfill in best case.
Many of my old items ( close to 40 years old) are made from plastics. But they are still fine. My precious Nylon back pack frame ( Coleman) I bought in 1977 or so. Perfect in every aspect, until airport handlers cracked it last year.
The bag, bought around two years earlier, is still fine.
I might do a wooden frame for it, collapsible, if I get the time. Or just throw it away.
I need a large backpack as soon as I get to Norway, so it means a buy of a modern one.
I think the 'Upcycling" thread on DIY subforum gives some great ideas!
The bag, bought around two years earlier, is still fine.
I might do a wooden frame for it, collapsible, if I get the time. Or just throw it away.
I need a large backpack as soon as I get to Norway, so it means a buy of a modern one.
I think the 'Upcycling" thread on DIY subforum gives some great ideas!
Last edited:
Huh! Sails, of course.
I just read this: "Henry VIII encouraged farmers to plant [hemp] extensively to provide materials for the British Naval fleet. A steady supply of hemp was needed for the construction of battleships and their components. Riggings, pendants, pennants, sails, and oakum were all made from hemp fiber and oil. Hemp paper was used for maps, logs, and even for the Bibles that sailors may have brought on board."
I used to like reading those O'Brian/Forrester naval novels. The number of times Riga was mentioned for masts, spars and tar was ridiculous I wonder if they grew the hemp too
I just read this: "Henry VIII encouraged farmers to plant [hemp] extensively to provide materials for the British Naval fleet. A steady supply of hemp was needed for the construction of battleships and their components. Riggings, pendants, pennants, sails, and oakum were all made from hemp fiber and oil. Hemp paper was used for maps, logs, and even for the Bibles that sailors may have brought on board."
I used to like reading those O'Brian/Forrester naval novels. The number of times Riga was mentioned for masts, spars and tar was ridiculous
I wonder if they grew the hemp tooInteresting! So Hemp has been grown in Europe for at least 500 years!
Here in Cayman, they used to make ropes for naval use from Silver Thatch palm. Was supposed to be stronger than hemp.
They say it also lasted better in Tropical areas better than tarred hemp ropes.
The sailors must have hated it as it is much, much coarser than hemp! Hell on hands, and hell on the back when you get disciplined!
( No experience myself! )
Here in Cayman, they used to make ropes for naval use from Silver Thatch palm. Was supposed to be stronger than hemp.
They say it also lasted better in Tropical areas better than tarred hemp ropes.
The sailors must have hated it as it is much, much coarser than hemp! Hell on hands, and hell on the back when you get disciplined!
( No experience myself!
)In Berlin I found every think I wanted, Janne. I could buy it easily when I was a student.
Before I decided to move to my garden house, the hole apartment was looking like in the Kaiserreich or in the twenties.
But I sold it all and moved in a small wooden cottage looking more or less like Henry David Thoreau's drawing of his cottage in Walden, furnitured with old stuff too, off course.
That's enough! He was totally right.
Before I decided to move to my garden house, the hole apartment was looking like in the Kaiserreich or in the twenties.
But I sold it all and moved in a small wooden cottage looking more or less like Henry David Thoreau's drawing of his cottage in Walden, furnitured with old stuff too, off course.
That's enough! He was totally right.
Yes this german leather shorts are very well working outdoor equipment, especially if they are closed with flap and buttons and not with a zipper.
The most important point is, that you never have to wash them. So in the summer you need only a second T-Shirt , swimming breefs and a second pair of socks as spare clothing.
The old german hiking movement "Wandervogel" was using in the summer an ultra light equipment in the times before the first world war.
People can't imagine, but that's simply trough. They used equipment from wool, leather and cotton etc, took every day every pegs and poles out of the forest an carried very light ruck sacks of round abot 5 kilos.
The most important point is, that you never have to wash them. So in the summer you need only a second T-Shirt , swimming breefs and a second pair of socks as spare clothing.
The old german hiking movement "Wandervogel" was using in the summer an ultra light equipment in the times before the first world war.
People can't imagine, but that's simply trough. They used equipment from wool, leather and cotton etc, took every day every pegs and poles out of the forest an carried very light ruck sacks of round abot 5 kilos.
A bit late to the party but thought I'd throw my tuppence worth in.
I see this subject from two sides as my experience with plastic vs natural kit is that the former is often cheaper and lighter whilst the latter is more expensive and heavier.
My own view is that items that are a permanent part of my kit and not disposable (pack, tarp, tent etc...) work well for me and only really become an environmental concern when hey come to the end of their life and need disposing of.
I suppose the bigger impact is the manufacture of these types of items, I know it's a cop out comment but given the relatively small numbers of bushcrafters in comparison to the general population I don't feel a collective swing towards more natural materials will have a significant impact overall.
Anything that is disposable in and of itself is fairly rare except for packaging for food which you can't much get away from these days and I will also carry out what I bring in.
All that said I am a fan of canvas, leather, wood etc... but use where size/weight/price allow.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I see this subject from two sides as my experience with plastic vs natural kit is that the former is often cheaper and lighter whilst the latter is more expensive and heavier.
My own view is that items that are a permanent part of my kit and not disposable (pack, tarp, tent etc...) work well for me and only really become an environmental concern when hey come to the end of their life and need disposing of.
I suppose the bigger impact is the manufacture of these types of items, I know it's a cop out comment but given the relatively small numbers of bushcrafters in comparison to the general population I don't feel a collective swing towards more natural materials will have a significant impact overall.
Anything that is disposable in and of itself is fairly rare except for packaging for food which you can't much get away from these days and I will also carry out what I bring in.
All that said I am a fan of canvas, leather, wood etc... but use where size/weight/price allow.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bamboo fibre is often advertised as environmentally friendly, however this is not necessarily the case. While bamboo grows fast etc, breaking it down so that it can be spun into flexible threads may be done in a much less friendly process, and then weaving is hardly benign.
https://oecotextiles.wordpress.com/category/fibers/viscose/
https://oecotextiles.wordpress.com/category/fibers/viscose/
It says that there is 'complete recovery' of the solvents. So, they are re-used as part of the manufacturing process I guess.
I liked this bit especially : "The reality is that the viscose process can produce fibers from any cellulose or protein source – chicken feathers, milk and even bacteria have been used (rayon comes specifically from wood or cotton)."
I liked this bit especially : "The reality is that the viscose process can produce fibers from any cellulose or protein source – chicken feathers, milk and even bacteria have been used (rayon comes specifically from wood or cotton)."
I guess it the usual story: The chemicals can be virtually 100% recovered, but that costs money.
It is cheaper to recover a smaller portion and dump the rest .
Unfortunately, the countries where most of our fiber/cloth/fabric production of bamboo, cotton and silk is, do not have a terribly good record of being environment friendly.
Manufacturing Viscose from Cotton must be a an environmental disaster. Producing cotton is bad by itself, then making the chemical transformation another.
(I guess)
It is cheaper to recover a smaller portion and dump the rest .
Unfortunately, the countries where most of our fiber/cloth/fabric production of bamboo, cotton and silk is, do not have a terribly good record of being environment friendly.
Manufacturing Viscose from Cotton must be a an environmental disaster. Producing cotton is bad by itself, then making the chemical transformation another.
(I guess)
I expect that producing bamboo fiber is very much the same as chemical pulping of wood fiber for paper-making.
Probably limited by raw feed stock so the price goes away up, like hemp fiber. We could grow square miles of hemp here. The processor is 3,000 miles east.
When mills (Prince George, BC) are producing more than 4,500 air dried tons of wood fiber every 24 hours, you can believe that they recycle their
production chemicals. No, it's much cheaper to recover the chemicals and to steam generate their own electrical supply.
So much hydrogen peroxide is used for bleaching that FMC build a peroxide plant with pipelines, on site. No railroad needed.
Probably limited by raw feed stock so the price goes away up, like hemp fiber. We could grow square miles of hemp here. The processor is 3,000 miles east.
When mills (Prince George, BC) are producing more than 4,500 air dried tons of wood fiber every 24 hours, you can believe that they recycle their
production chemicals. No, it's much cheaper to recover the chemicals and to steam generate their own electrical supply.
So much hydrogen peroxide is used for bleaching that FMC build a peroxide plant with pipelines, on site. No railroad needed.
