To me, it seems ideal. Still a carbon steel with character and soul, but is superior to O1 in many ways. Slightly harder, slightly less rust prone, slightly better edge retention (though harder to sharpen). You will never catch me using S30V or some crazy stainless "super steel" but A2 seems like a great compromise to me
Why don't more knife makers use A2 tool steel?
- Thread starter UCBerzerkeley
- Start date
Taking your implied point that a good choice for steel in knives is one easily sharpened and taking a good edge and being corrosion resistant at the same time .... A2 does have a lot going for it .... then there are steels which are probably better than A2 .... Infi by Jerry Busse emerged after he started making knives using A2 .... but steels are not inherantly superior than the maker can manage to get out of them .... Bob Dozier does very well with D2 steel and I would rate D2 if the heat treatment is good as right up there with A2 and Infi ...
52100 steel is another one similar to 01 in that it takes a cracking edge and is stronger than O1 and sharpens easily but is a steel which needs looking after on the corrosion front. Again it needs the right heat treatment.
But at the end of the day .... if the heat treatment is good and you are knowledgeable about using and looking after your knife .... 01 is a fine choice for most environments ...
Tropical climates where wetness is constant .... you can make a good case for Infi, D2 and to a lesser degree on corrosion resistance A2 .... but for most climates all the above are very good. 01 though is a lot cheaper and easier to find than A2 .... and it is easier to work with. "Good" results are a lot more likely to be obtained and "good" knives can be made more cheaply .... which either helps the buyer or the maker on profits ....
I have an excellent knife from HillBill in 01 which cost a lot less than my Woodlore or my SWC Mears Bushcraft knife .... less than half the price .... and HB's knife is finished in nicer wood with liners and the heat treatment on the edge seems very comparable ....
So sometimes 01 may be a profit aspect ....
I have used Bark River in A2 and they are good but having used a Dozier in D2 for the same sort of money I prefer his D2 if I want a more "stainless" knife which holds a long lasting excellent edge ....
For me though it is not so much the steel but the maker that makes the knife a really excellent one .... and some makers and steels are better suited to certain tasks ... Infi works best in a large knife for chopping as the steel rolls and does not chip out ....
All the above sharpen easily too.
Some of the super steels though have edges easily maintained if made by the right maker and come razor sharp to begin with .... I have a few from Japan that work well .... if you maintain the edge by stropping after using it they work just as well and can stand a lot more work before dulling .... if that happens .... they do take longer to sharpen though.
52100 steel is another one similar to 01 in that it takes a cracking edge and is stronger than O1 and sharpens easily but is a steel which needs looking after on the corrosion front. Again it needs the right heat treatment.
But at the end of the day .... if the heat treatment is good and you are knowledgeable about using and looking after your knife .... 01 is a fine choice for most environments ...
Tropical climates where wetness is constant .... you can make a good case for Infi, D2 and to a lesser degree on corrosion resistance A2 .... but for most climates all the above are very good. 01 though is a lot cheaper and easier to find than A2 .... and it is easier to work with. "Good" results are a lot more likely to be obtained and "good" knives can be made more cheaply .... which either helps the buyer or the maker on profits ....
I have an excellent knife from HillBill in 01 which cost a lot less than my Woodlore or my SWC Mears Bushcraft knife .... less than half the price .... and HB's knife is finished in nicer wood with liners and the heat treatment on the edge seems very comparable ....
So sometimes 01 may be a profit aspect ....
I have used Bark River in A2 and they are good but having used a Dozier in D2 for the same sort of money I prefer his D2 if I want a more "stainless" knife which holds a long lasting excellent edge ....
For me though it is not so much the steel but the maker that makes the knife a really excellent one .... and some makers and steels are better suited to certain tasks ... Infi works best in a large knife for chopping as the steel rolls and does not chip out ....
All the above sharpen easily too.
Some of the super steels though have edges easily maintained if made by the right maker and come razor sharp to begin with .... I have a few from Japan that work well .... if you maintain the edge by stropping after using it they work just as well and can stand a lot more work before dulling .... if that happens .... they do take longer to sharpen though.
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iiirc Buck knives use this stuff.........and they break.
They're a bugger to sharpen and the tips snap off.
each to their own though.
cheers,
Toddy
They're a bugger to sharpen and the tips snap off.
each to their own though.
cheers,
Toddy
Well that's no good ! I had heard A2 had better qualities than that. To me, that sounds like D2 (you do mean A2 not D2, right?) D2 is reputed to be brittle, Dozier is really the only maker I have heard of that gets it right consistently
D6 is another steel which sounds pretty impressive but is rarely used. Farid at bb did some stuff with it though and has an awesome post on bb of testing it against a chunk of aluminium!
Buck do use A2 but in a company so large the heat treatment is not going to be easily kept an eye on on quality control ... and a mistake there will ruin any steel ....
Wilson Combat uses D2 quite well .... certainly not a brittle steel in their knives .... but again mass produced makers who make an error on heat treatment will have problems on brittleness .... especially if trying for a high Rc figure in the upper 50's or higher ....
Large makers can also make soft knives to a low Rc figure to avoid breakages but then the knife fails to take a good edge .... I have had a few diving knives have this problem when made from very "stainless" orientated steels and made to perhaps have more of a "prybar" role .... I had an expensive Gerber blade which was a nightmare to sharpen.
Steels need to be judged by the "good" custom makers IMO .... not the mass produced ones made in Taiwan or China .... Cold Steel and SOG and Buck and Gerber who are all outsourcing their blades to these countries for profit are all making knives of lesser quality than they used to ....
There is probably no comparison to a Randall made in 01 tool steel in the US and any of the above large manufacturers in A2 who outsource to Taiwan or China .... the forges there are run like sweat shop factories based only on "production" numbers ....
In comparison Fallkniven who get all their blades made in Japan in Seki .... where SOG used to get them made when they won their SEAL contract knife .... those blades coming out of Japan are like their cars .... they are very well made .... I have a lot of time for Japanese made knives by the larger conglomerates made up of small custom shops in cities like Seki .... it is like how Sheffield used to be when they had huge contracts being made by the good smaller knife makers ....
Wilson Combat uses D2 quite well .... certainly not a brittle steel in their knives .... but again mass produced makers who make an error on heat treatment will have problems on brittleness .... especially if trying for a high Rc figure in the upper 50's or higher ....
Large makers can also make soft knives to a low Rc figure to avoid breakages but then the knife fails to take a good edge .... I have had a few diving knives have this problem when made from very "stainless" orientated steels and made to perhaps have more of a "prybar" role .... I had an expensive Gerber blade which was a nightmare to sharpen.
Steels need to be judged by the "good" custom makers IMO .... not the mass produced ones made in Taiwan or China .... Cold Steel and SOG and Buck and Gerber who are all outsourcing their blades to these countries for profit are all making knives of lesser quality than they used to ....
There is probably no comparison to a Randall made in 01 tool steel in the US and any of the above large manufacturers in A2 who outsource to Taiwan or China .... the forges there are run like sweat shop factories based only on "production" numbers ....
In comparison Fallkniven who get all their blades made in Japan in Seki .... where SOG used to get them made when they won their SEAL contract knife .... those blades coming out of Japan are like their cars .... they are very well made .... I have a lot of time for Japanese made knives by the larger conglomerates made up of small custom shops in cities like Seki .... it is like how Sheffield used to be when they had huge contracts being made by the good smaller knife makers ....
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its OF steel for me the other steels are just to expensive and are hard to get a hold of localy....
Since when? If there is a Buck A2 knife out there, it's a rare beast. Buck mostly uses 420HC stainless and have for years, not A2. Buck does make some knives every once in awhile with different steels, including S30V, but their bread and butter knives are made with 420HC and yes, they are not pry bars.
And A2 is wonderful steel. Given all things the same, I'll take A2 over O1 any day, and I have a bunch of knives of both. I'll also take A2 over the much hyped Infi and I have 8 or 9 of those much hyped knives.
Buck knives use 420HC steel, they heat treat it very hard which is why they can break, ive owned a few and have never had a problem, been used for cuttng down trees and heavy battoning. the only other steel they use is S30v which is an excellent steel in all aspects.
Hmmmm, touched something huh ? 
Sorry Hoodoo, I did say iirc.
I'm still pretty sure that's what comes to mind
If I'm wrong about the steel, I apologise, but I make none for the Buck knives comment. Only thing they're fit for are polishing nicely and keeping shiny
cheers,
M
Sorry Hoodoo, I did say iirc.
I'm still pretty sure that's what comes to mind
If I'm wrong about the steel, I apologise, but I make none for the Buck knives comment. Only thing they're fit for are polishing nicely and keeping shiny
cheers,
M
there are a few reasons that not many knifemakers use steels like A2, D2 and the like.
They are not currently 'in vogue' like O1 is (52100 was all the craze for a while, certainly in the States, as was 5160. Both are still used but not with as much hero worship and enthusiastic receipt)
Another very key reason is that such steels require more than basic technology and techniques to properly heat treat. things like close temperature control, vacuum or cryogenic hardening, and very long soak times at high temperature all make for an expensive set up. Also O1 is very cheap to buy compared to the other steels
They are not currently 'in vogue' like O1 is (52100 was all the craze for a while, certainly in the States, as was 5160. Both are still used but not with as much hero worship and enthusiastic receipt)
Another very key reason is that such steels require more than basic technology and techniques to properly heat treat. things like close temperature control, vacuum or cryogenic hardening, and very long soak times at high temperature all make for an expensive set up. Also O1 is very cheap to buy compared to the other steels
Hmmmm, touched something huh ?
Sorry Hoodoo, I did say iirc.
I'm still pretty sure that's what comes to mind
If I'm wrong about the steel, I apologise, but I make none for the Buck knives comment. Only thing they're fit for are polishing nicely and keeping shiny
cheers,
M
IIRC, for a short period of time there was some Chinese-made Bucks that were advertised by dealers to be made of something besides 420HC, but I forget what the claim was.
Also O1 is very cheap to buy compared to the other steels
And there you have it.
I'm not knocking O1. I have a ton of O1 knives, including many carving knives. O1 has long been a great tool steel. I just think A2 is better by a good margin for a variety of reasons. I wish I had a Buck knife with A2.
I would go for the fact that its an air hardening steel as opposed to oil or water hardening steel and maybe some makers have problems with heat treating it?
I have a really nice block plane made by Veritas that I had the option of an O1 or an A2 steel iron (the term iron in a plane is actually the bit that many would call the blade).
The A2 plane iron was claimed to be harder but also harder to sharpen but as I use diamond hones I went for it over the O1 and I'm still happy with that decision years on, it takes and holds an excellent edge.
I have a really nice block plane made by Veritas that I had the option of an O1 or an A2 steel iron (the term iron in a plane is actually the bit that many would call the blade).
The A2 plane iron was claimed to be harder but also harder to sharpen but as I use diamond hones I went for it over the O1 and I'm still happy with that decision years on, it takes and holds an excellent edge.
And there you have it.
I'm not knocking O1. I have a ton of O1 knives, including many carving knives. O1 has long been a great tool steel. I just think A2 is better by a good margin for a variety of reasons. I wish I had a Buck knife with A2.
A looooooong time ago, when the world and I were young
, there was a buck knife in one of the workshops, I think it belonged to my big brother, and it *was* a good knife. It was probably of WW2 vintage, brought back by some Uncle or other. So why are they using these other steels now ? I distinctly recall that old knife being used to butcher, and cut firewood to kindling, and pry open cans with when we were out with the boat.
It kept an edge and it took any amount of abuse. It's probably still kicking around in my young brothers workshop now.
I wouldn't even try half the things we did with that knife with one of their new ones.
cheers,
Toddy
A2 from which maker ?
Buck do use A2 or have done .... their collaboration on the Buckmaster had knives done in A2, 440c and D2 IIRC .... then there is the Alpha hunting series where again IIRC some of the knives were offered in A2 ...
For me A2 is really "Bark River" for good results .... and then only in smaller knives .... Infi may well be "hyped" but in larger blades it is a good steel ... the best I have come across for that use .... in a smaller blade I have'nt been able to find significant differences in BR and Busse once I had re-profiled the Busse's .... BR have the best edges for factory knives I have encountered for convex edges .... Busse seem to cater for the prospect of people using them on breeze blocks .... the factory edges are very obtuse .... but re-profiled they are very good in larger blades.
Jeremy Horton has some great knives in A2 as well .... I have an 8 inch blade of his I highly rate but the thickness is .270 and it won't have the lateral strength/flexibility of Infi .... although in fairness I would never use my knives as prybars to the extent required to test this.
Personally I would say Infi and A2 are very hard to seperate through normal use .... YMMV .... infact I would say many steels from good makers are very hard to seperate from normal use .... especially in the smaller blades. I have had to deliberately work knives way beyond when I would otherwise strop the blade just to get an idea of edge retention qualities to compare them.
Like yourself I have a lot of knives which I try out and do use to "enjoy them" ....
If I'm wrong about the steel, I apologise, but I make none for the Buck knives comment. Only thing they're fit for are polishing nicely and keeping shiny
cheers,
M
thats fair Toddy, and i know you have seen them fail in the past, personaly ive used them alot rougher than i would use my customs and scandis ect and they have done very well.
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